Forum Topic

'Privatising' the NHS in Ealing

I have a great deal of sympathy with the people who demonstrated recently outside the Town Hall about the possibility of the contract to provide out of hospital care in the borough to Virgin. My parents worked for the NHS and family members still do. However, we have to recognise that some really difficult choices need to be made. Virgin probably will be able to deliver the services more cheaply. Although they will have to make a profit margin on the contract private sector employers generally are more efficient that the state catastrophes like Carillion and Birmingham prison notwithstanding. The existing trust will have much greater employee costs and have to operate under restrictive practices which will make provision of the service more expensive. We should pretend that alot of the savings from Virgin come about because relatively poorly paid people will be paid less but, at the same time, when Rupa Huq and Julian Bell demonstrate to 'Save Our NHS' it should be clearly understood that they are campaigning for the interests of the providers of the service and not that of the patients.

Dennis O'Shea ● 2717d7 Comments

& im sick of greedy fat cat bosses earning big bucks, bonuses when they run company into ground.When it all goes t***s up the usual quotes of their bonuses could be stopped, never happens.Banks, trains housebuilding etc etc

Peter Yale ● 2703d

We don't want to be like America.

Philippa Bond ● 2704d

Outsourcing usually ends up more expensive as there is a management overhead cost that never gets factored in. The key costs locally are the PFI contracts that make west middlesex an expensive hospital to run. The money is already being spent badly and the NHS is subsidising merchant bankers rather than spending wisely. the aim of many in the government is to hand over to US corporations and force us all onto private health insurance.

Peter Chadburn ● 2705d

If the adoption of outsourcing was always a rational decision  who could disagree - BUT the present government have adopted it  dogmatically with the theory of reducing the state involvement in our lives.  In many cases this has been disastrous.

Philippa Bond ● 2706d

That's right — thank you for pointing out my error and clarifying the point I was making. Anyone who says the answer to this problem is to spend more money is basically dodging the issue. The main political parties' spending pledges were more or less the same at the time of the last election and just maintaining current levels of provision is already requiring very painful cuts elsewhere. We are about to commit in some shape or form the greatest act of economic self-harm in the history of this country and even in the more benign scenarios, government revenues are likely to fall significantly. This will inevitably have an impact on our ability to spend on the NHS. Outsourcing services is not a 'politically dogmatic experiment' —  it is something that has been done in the private sector for decades. It doesn't always work and, if done for the wrong reasons or if badly managed it can be disastrous, but entirely state run services have also shown that they can be messed up on a grand scale. There is no solid body of evidence that categorically shows one approach is always better than the other and therefore we should judge each decision on how to run a service in isolation. What is right for Ealing remains an open question.

Dennis O'Shea ● 2707d

Think Dennis meant to say that we 'shouldn't' pretend that giving the contract to Virgin is just a way of paying the people who do the work less. But he is right that it is one of two unpalatable choices. Spending on the NHS is rising and will continue to rise because we have a national commitment to provide free health care and an aging population. We probably ultimately will all have to pay higher taxes to fund this so other ways to accelerate the pace of increase in costs should be considered. Whether Virgin Care would be a good thing or a bad thing is down to the way the contract is drawn up, managed and monitored as opposed to it being the wrong or right approach in principle. It's hard to say at this stage if it is the best option.

Andy Jones ● 2709d

Really?The big problem is that we aren't paying enough for our hospitals.  The government isn't putting enough money in and we don't want to pay any more taxes for them - that is probably unless and until we need them...  They have been starved of enough funding for years.How can you still flog the idea that private sector contracts that don't work and which take more money out of the state sector and which we then have to pay even more for to be put right are money well spent?  Surely it is time to kill this politically dogmatic experiment.And while on the subject of the NHS there are still a lot of problems on the wards where staff spend too much time attempting to "manage" patients instead of caring for them.  How many visitors or patients know the difference between qualified and registered nursing staff and health care assistants?  Everybody with friends or family in hospital needs to make sure that they know what is happening and to speak up.  Everybody in hospital needs a friend. http://theconversation.com/shortage-of-nurses-in-uk-is-affecting-patient-care-and-threatening-lives-89734

Philippa Bond ● 2717d