Forum Topic

Park cafes in Ealing

https://www.facebook.com/benugocafedeli/posts/1872782116067585Interesting...so who have PMGT awarded walpole park to. They said they would make ana nnouncement on 28th feb? Nobody has contacted me, have they contacted you?

Alan Dillon ● 2951d41 Comments

I also feel that the decision makers are more comfortable with chains and labels. When we go into the high street in a strange town do we go to starbucks or a local cafe. same with shopping. The brands spend a lot of money in order to make us feel comfortable with them. The chains can clearly demonstrate their plans, projections etc in a convincing manner but their margins mean that a pricey menu gives us customers poor value.

Peter Chadburn ● 2918d

Gunnersbury Park and Museum will be dependent on revenue from the cafe for future income. The way it works is that grant bodies will only give money to an organisation that generates its own money. A sandwich van selling good value snacks is not going to bring in as much as a plush cafe with a pricey menu.

Helen Cavanagh ● 2918d

Presumably the Benugo contract stipulates that nobody else can set up in the park. The shame is that the Council didn't insist that the menu must include lower priced items for meals as well so that the kind of products offered by Monica were still available.

Tricia Arbuthnot ● 2928d

You’ve said it in a nutshell Peter. It is disgraceful and once again only impacts the little man all round.

Alan Dillon ● 2931d

Marie, I'm not sure if they did or not. Can't remember it was so long ago.

Tania Bapuji ● 2931d

Alan,this is the main point of this that the little guy stands no chance. in effect these competitive tendering processes are anti competitive!! so what we see is that small business is eliminated from any involvement for councils. so the benugos, keirs, carilions win everything

Peter Chadburn ● 2932d

I suspect she was invited to bid like me. Unfortunately you cannot compete against big corporations and the council and trustees know this, so it is an unfair System and weighted against us as small family businesses from the start. It is averaged these big companies like Benugos are able to spend at least 10K on the bid process... what local independent can even begin to spend these amounts. The council are in theory meant to assist and aid small local business but they don’t, they are all in it together. There is no transparency or equity. Benugos recently stepped away from their application to take over a park cafe on parliament hill because public opinion was so great and there was too much publicity against the takeover. Shame on Benugos who took over from a small independent at Gunnersbury and put them out of work. Shame on ealing council who continually suggest they support small and local. Clearly not the case.

Alan Dillon ● 2932d

If you knew Monica from the old cafe Tania, do you know what happened behind the scenes? Did the old cafe go willingly or did they bid and fail like Walpole Pk?I am glad your friends are happy with the cafe. But with cheapestfood of fish finger bap and cup of tea at £10.65  its well above a lot of peoples budgets.  Might be ok for Hyde Pk and Kew Gdns but this is suburban Gunnersbury. Obviously the way to go is make sure you take a friend and order pizza.....I hadnt seen 2 for 1 offer.

Marie McLernon ● 2932d

If you knew Monica from the old cafe Tania, do you know what happened behind the scenes? Did the old cafe go willingly or did they bid and fail like Walpole Pk?I am glad your friends are happy with the cafe. But with cheapestfood of fish finger bap and cup of tea at £10.65  its well above a lot of peoples budgets.  Might be ok for Hyde Pk and Kew Gdns but this is suburban Gunnersbury. Obviously the way to go is make sure you take a friend and order pizza.....I hadnt seen 2 for 1 offer.

Marie McLernon ● 2932d

Oh Monica's was great, and exceptionally cheap, but in my opinion, it's not comparable with this new cafe. I agree, it was nice to being able to stroll up to the green kiosk without having to tie up my dog and get a quick coffee for £2. Maybe I'm not so tightfisted :-) but don't think 39p is that much of an increase considering the quality of the drink is so much better. And maybe I'm greedy and enjoy the pizzas too much which are good value too. That said, I do think there's a place for a quick "stop and shop" kiosk for people in a hurry, dog walkers who don't like to tie their dogs up alone or with massively muddy shoes to use. It makes me snigger when I see myself or other people who don't just stick to paths treading mud all through the new shiny cafe. Maybe it's something the Friends of Gunnersbury could take up with the new cafe owners.  The previous kiosk would be an ideal location.

Tania Bapuji ● 2932d

yes I think it is very much a time for a change this labor council are just doing as they like and not listening to the people of Ealing

Harold John Ward ● 2932d

My friends must be a lot more price conscious than yours Tania because they are generally up in arms about the new cafe. Like me, they are all regular users of the park.Whether it was the former cafe on this site or the van down by the stables it was always possible to get a hot beverage plus a half decent freshly made sandwich for under a fiver. I haven't actually ventured into the new cafe yet as it has been too cold up to now to linger in the park but looking at the menu online it is going to cost considerably more to sit down and eat. I'm sure for many the more pleasant surroundings will provide a justification for the higher cost but for those on low incomes or the tightfisted like myself it is a big disincentive to using the facilities.

Andy Jones ● 2932d

As a regular dog walker to Gunnersbury and friend of Monica and family from the old cafe, I can say that the regular users of the old cafe who I've spoken with really like the new cafe and are using it just as regularly as the old cafe.  I've not heard one person complain in the park. It just seems to be online that the complains are coming thick and fast. The pizzas are two for one, so you get two pizzas for around a tenner which is pretty good value and they're delicious. The coffee is lovely and if you bring your own cup you get 10% off.  So a cappuccino is £2.39 which isn't bad.  Haven't looked at the price of tea but it'll be the first place in London where I've seen a tea more expensive than a cappuccino. If correct, this is odd I agree. I would question their reasons for it. I agree a can of coke is expensive, but you're not just paying for the coke, it includes the overheads.  There's a garage across the road if you just want a can of coke to drink in the park ;-)

Tania Bapuji ● 2933d

I know, little or no response from the local councillors. However, local elections are coming up so this is your best hope!?!? Vote them out.

Alan Dillon ● 2934d

Are you having a laugh Alan; tried and eventually gave up my attempts to get my voice heard through my councillors in Southall 10 years ago!

Mehar Singh ● 2934d

All very well said and I am in absolute agreement. Maybe get your voices heard through your local councillors. The elections are looming and they need to listen to you all. Surely enough is enough

Alan Dillon ● 2934d

Well Mehar,A nice picnic is the order of the day. When I was a lad a pack of sandwiches and a tupperware beaker of orange squash was the usual thing.

Peter Chadburn ● 2934d

You might catch me at the park with my thermos flask and sandwiches, don't see the sense in throwing away £1.50 on an inflated price of a can of sugar. I'm beginning to think that our councillors and council officers have a screw loose...

Mehar Singh ● 2934d

A depressing, but not doubt accurate, assessment.

Philip Coe ● 2934d

Outsourcing, Private Finance Initiative, Competitive Tendering are all products of the Big Corporate advisors. I was a freelance IT consultant and worked at one company quite successfully to develop new and improved applications with another freelancer. They had a smallish staff of around 5. They then outsourced their IT as it would save money. So their staff were TUPE'd out to the new supplier. Then they recruited a manager and a PA to manage the contract. They then proposed more development and migration to a new database and hardware. The supplier then to get the expertise hired me via another company along with quite a few other people. The supplier had 23 people involved with the project. The development involved Analysts talking to managers within the company and as a result parts of the project were a very expensive failure. I was there on much higher pay and unable to do what I did before because the structures and procedures were the obstructions that denied success. We see in the NHS, Schools etc that private Finance has created a cost monster. So the little guy is ignored and whether Alan or other family businesses we see no interest. Of course the decision makers might not like Bacon baps at £2 and a mug of tea for £1.20 and prefer Coffee at £3 and Brushetta at £5. But for me the little guy has long since lost this battle once the KPMG, Deloittes and others got hold of the engine of Government.

Peter Chadburn ● 2934d

That's a really good explanation.Operators like Alan (from the original post) will generally have a good feel for what their customers want. Benugo will keep costs down with a centralised ordering function which means that their cafes are more or less the same at all locations. The menu may work at the British Museum or parks which attract a wider range of visitor but it is completely inappropriate for Gunnersbury.

Andy Jones ● 2934d

It is the process of competitive tendering that has revolutionised public services that is part of the problem. providing expertise at a lower price has been the mantra but the only people who can tender are those with the internal facilities to provide effective quotes. so the little guys who used to do a lot of jobs get squeezed out and become sub-contractors screwed by the likes of Carillion.  Of course we see that Councils in there need to handle the complex contracts employ lawyers and Business managers at high salaries. So the outsourced, competitive tendering model ends up with corporates controlling our services. We see our local cafes run by local people decimated in the parks. what will happen to the current café in Gunnersbury that is down by the old changing rooms?? is that disappearing?? does anyone know? The principles and the ideas that were sold to save us money come with a higher cost and a lack of control.

Peter Chadburn ● 2934d

The festivals and the Secret Cinema events will have their own catering. The latter has seven bars. So the impact on the cafe will, if anything, be negative because regular park users will avoid the place.Wouldn't the sport centre have a small cafe on site anyway? Even if not I don't think too many people are going to walk across to the Benugo site to eat.Presumably an FoI request for details of the contract between the park and Benugo would be turned down on grounds of commercial sensitivity. I don't know a great deal about how these things work but I'm guessing the concession is essentially a short lease. The concern would be that the authorities may have discounted it in return for a revenue share which may well turn out to disappoint.

Andy Jones ● 2934d

I see they have applied for a late licence including sale of alcohol which will be for festival events. It is possible they will cater for functions but surely park visitors will be their daily bread so to speak. Once this sports centre is up and running it will be a whole new ball game.......but that will be mainly weekends.  Not sure how many sports people sit down for a meal after exercise....dont they take their protein shakes nowadays??

Marie McLernon ● 2935d

Sadly Marie I don't think that they will take any notice of us. The business plan is probably based on "gouging" the festival and event goers that they are expecting as the "un-trustees" of Gunnersbury Park push it towards more and more and ever more revenue-generating events, gouging the attendees to the sports facilities and the revenue for in-house catering for corporate and similar events in the refurbished Manor. As local residents and park users we are but a mere inconvenience in the quest for corporate profit!

Mark Julian Raymond ● 2935d

The future of park cafes lies in our hands. When tired of being asked for a toasted sandwich enough times they may decide to sell one instead of  referring customers to the list of £10 pizzas......

Marie McLernon ● 2935d

Very true. A Park is an amenity and you go to spend some relaxing time there. If you go to Alton Towers then maybe amongst the tickets the food is just another cost. You take the kids to the park to enjoy the free amenity and maybe an ice-cream. Maybe we will see the revival of the picnic!!

Peter Chadburn ● 2935d

Tend to agree that the majority of park visitors will only want a modestly priced drink and maybe a snack.  But then again I am amazed at how many other retail outlets (from Westfield to garden centres) now seem to have large restaurants.

Philip Coe ● 2935d

This mirrors much of what we see with government and competitive tendering for public services. the companies that win these processes can afford the lawyers and other experts to win the process and so that is why the consumer/taxpayer gets a crap deal.

Peter Chadburn ● 2935d

Well, my first visit to the Gunnersbury Park Cafe echoes your views guys, overpriced, unfriendly and probably soon to close at those prices. It was £1.50 for a can of Coke. This is meant to be a community venue not a tourist gouging joint!Total failure on the part of three councils, several committees, a bunch of "professional" trustees and a disaster for real park "users".I was told by the girl at the counter that I had to wait for my coffee to be made and take it with me, it would NOT be brought to my table (which is what I would have expected at those prices.)

Mark Julian Raymond ● 2935d

The old Gunnersbury and bunny park cafes were excellent value for money. wholesome simple fare. sad days.

Peter Chadburn ● 2935d

It's quite simple. If you are stupid enough or rich enough. Go and spend too much for something. Plenty of people happily pay over the odds .Anyone with any degree of sensibility won't spend excessively for an exercise of pretentiousness in what is a public park.  It's not Richmond Park, Regents park or a prime tourist location, but a local community park.The real problem is the need to generate revenue but it is clouded with deluded assumptions and very poor 'professional' consultants. It's happening all over.So simply support the nearby local cafes instead.With Hounslow now calling visitors to parks 'Customers' it's not to difficult to see where things are heading.They have forgotten that they are supposed to be merely custodians of a facility bequeathed to the townspeople as a whole and not a toy for revenue raising in any which way.

Mark Kehoe ● 2935d

£2.90 for a cup of tea! Has it got gold in it?

Susan Kelly ● 2936d

It would be interesting to know the broad structure of the contract. For instance have Benugo guaranteed the trust a minimum income or is there a risk that no money will go to support the park if the cafe doesn't meet specific revenue targets.Looking at the menu on offer it doesn't seem to me that Benugo have done their homework. I love Gunnersbury Park but it is never going to be a destination that a large number of people from outside the area will visit - if you are going to spend the day in a park Richmond is close by and even Osterley is probably going to attract more visitors. Particularly in the winter months, dog walkers make up the overwhelming proportion of visitors and they are mainly from the local area. They are not going to want the kind of food on offer at the new cafe or to pay the level of price expected.

Andy Jones ● 2936d

This is what we get with modern procurement. The cheap and cheerful family brunette cafés stand no chance. When you see the one in the bunny park . We see the lack of character.whether the national trust destroying the giants causeway or chains winning the procurement for local cafes it is very sad. Ok for the yummy mummy brigade in their Audi's. But for the park lovers an end of an era.

Peter Chadburn ● 2937d

Went to new cafe in Gunnersbury Park.First day, free coffee.....just as well, its all I would buy.Not the cheap and cheerful cafe useful for walkers/families to pop into. The menu is mainly for main meals over £10. I took the free coffee but told them I was really disappointed in their menu and prices. I think they have got it wrong.  It will mean more picnics.  Cup of tea £2.90....no thank you

Marie McLernon ● 2937d

The process make that impossible. The chains and big groups can clean up in any tendering process that has a degree of complexity. There needs to be a simpler way. This is why Carillion, Amey, Keir and other providers clean up in so many areas.

Peter Chadburn ● 2939d

You are right about Benugo but that was kind of my point. They are a large company with dozens of concessions. They are probably a safe choice but the chance of a family owned local business getting a contract like this has all but disappeared.

Tricia Arbuthnot ● 2939d

I thought I saw somewhere the contract had been awarded to Benugo? Their speciality in Greenwich is a Vegan trofie pasta.

Libby Kemp ● 2941d

I think your point is spot on - the public sector is a huge part of our economy and it has a real problem dealing with smaller enterprises. That's why we end up with companies like Carillion.Just one point of information though - as far as I am aware the Community Interest Company hasn't yet taken control of Gunnersbury Park so the cafe award will have been made by the joint Ealing and Hounslow management.

Andy Jones ● 2942d

The contract award for Gunnersbury Park will probably have been made by the Community Interest Company that operates the park. I haven't visited the new cafe yet but my fear is that it won't be as good as what was there before as these organisations always seem to be more comfortable with larger corporate chains than smaller local businesses. Delivering predictable mediocrity ticks all the boxes.

Tricia Arbuthnot ● 2948d