Forum Topic

Ealing Broadway Station Public Realm

Plans revealed yesterday indicate that here will be(1) 15 bus-stops(2) 180 cycle docking parking stations(3) 18 taxi spaces in the rankAnd No drop-off and pick-up facility at Ealing Broadway Station for car carried passengersNo Not None.We've waited almost 150 years for lifts to help guests with luggage, women with youngsters and buggies and the elderly and disabled to access the platforms and now we are stopped because we can't get near those lifts by car

Arthur Breens ● 2806d37 Comments

"You also appear to have misunderstood the statement regarding the forecourt being a “high quality gateway”.  This does mean improved access to the station for all, but also the Council is not willing to accept this being sub-standard or for it to give a poor first impression for anyone visiting the Town Centre." from a response from a councillor officer. They may want a "high quality gateway" - a much overused term by LBE's planners, but the visitors will certainly get a surprise when they get to the Uxbridge Road and see the recent buildings which have no sense place and probably some of the worst architecture in London.

Libby Kemp ● 2269d

"A half-decent council" ....... precisely.Again, I challenge anyone reading this Forum who voted for this shower to please come on here and justify BellEnd's antics.I had NO takers last time I asked so what's wrong, ashamed of your Dear Leader?  You should be.

Rosco White ● 2271d

Totally agree.They want people to transition from cars yet provide no viable alternative.Woeful.A half-decent council would be insisting on suitable provision in terms of accessibility.

N V Brooks ● 2272d

Exactly Arthur. Disabled provision is a joke. It is because disabled people use cars that they get discriminated against. Dropping people off at a station is important as part of an integrated strategy. So a family with luggage dropped at the station to go to the airport or to the west country is important. But then if one remembers the tram consultation integrated transport planning was not a strong point then. Transport integration requires creative thought and should not be an excuse for an anti car agenda. Very well public transport and other modes must have priority but to make a real success requires the planners to make the station a success.

Peter Chadburn ● 2273d

Bump  Old thread.  Still not going to be properly and universally accessible.  As it should be.

Philippa Bond ● 2273d

At the Inquiry to decide if the Cycle Hub land take on Haven Green was legal, evidence was given that if it was sited in Springbridge Road car park then cyclists would not use it because they would not walk more than 100 yards to the station. However the current plans mean that the long term severly disabled (blue badge holders) and the temporary disabled, frail, elderly, buggies luggage etc have to walk that same distance the cyclists were unable to walk. And the taxi ranks 18 well if there isn't enough room for proper drop off bays or a disabled bay remove 12 taxi stands and place the others at a distance to be called when required. It happens in Brussels. Lastly why are our planners for this public realm so unable to produce plans that are inclusive.

Arthur Breens ● 2775d

You could always put your elderly or disabled passenger on the back of your tandem and cycle to the station I suppose.

Keith Iddon ● 2785d

Excellent article.

David Burke ● 2785d

I'll try that again.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LujWrkYsl64

Paul James ● 2786d

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LujWrkYsl64

Paul James ● 2786d

And that's wrong, but that's another subject!

Paul James ● 2786d

The new station should be accessible to ALL the people that it isn't accessible for at the moment.  It isn't a case of either being fit and able or having a blue badge healthwise!  There is an inbetween phase.  We spent months attempting to jump through all the hoops to get a blue badge for a blind and frail 97 year old.  It should have been easy but it wasn't.  It was necessary for two of us to accompany nearly all the time.

Philippa Bond ● 2787d

But on the road you have the throughput of buses and their passengers and cars and lorries carrying essential?? goods. The important thing to remember about roads is that smooth flow leads to less pollution.

Peter Chadburn ● 2787d

Hi Peter,Your points are all sensible, and I agree with all of them. The reality of the situation is that the majority of car traffic in central Ealing is able bodied people going on very short journeys to shops/schools/friends/work and is not interchanging with the station. These journeys can either be made via other means or diverted away from central Ealing.If you measure the width of the road relative to the width of the pavement, it is ~75% road and ~25% pavement.

Luke Bannar-Martin ● 2787d

Given the high levels of pollution we need smooth flow of all traffic but also an interchange needs to allow drop offs. It is obvious when you consider that this is a major station. otherwise people will have to be dropped off at other stations. Yes the point is that Car usage will decline but that our roads include cars, lorries, buses and other forms of transport. In Holland where there is a lot more integration I remember being able to pick up from a station easily when there and other stations here I have managed it. My late wife was disabled and so to go into town we had to use a car. We had a blue badge but also she did use buses at times. The interchange means switching between modes of transport. The one issue with drop offs that I do recognise is that there are people who will wait for 10 minutes blocking access. Cameras are the easy answer for that. your pick up. phones you when they are at the pick up point and you drive down and pick them up. a well designed interchange could do that. if you remember the stupid tram project the planners said that an interchange between the station and the tram would be the tram stop outside smiths to walk up to the station. Good Planning must emphasise the importance of Public Transport Priorities alongside other forms. Yes less reliance on the car would be useful but I know that I would not be able to get to work without mine. My old job was on train and tube.also who is saying 75% of the space should be given over to the car? the road past the station is a busy road.

Peter Chadburn ● 2787d

"We are social animals and we evolved to get on together". Please explain how people in cars are able to socially interact with other people?The station is not an interchange between all forms of transport - where are the helicopters, airplanes, ferries, hovercraft, canoes, horses, etc? The station is to allow people to get on the train and off the train, nothing else. Given that ~99%+ of people who use Ealing Broadway station either walk/cycle there or get the bus, why should ~75% of the space outside the station be reserved for cars (the vast majority of whom are not even going to the station!).Look all around London (and other major cities across the world) - they are all slowly trying to undo the 100 year long mistake of handing the streets of our cities over to cars.Car use will never become completely obsolete within cities, and you provide a sensible and reasonable justification for this conclusion. However, in pedestrian busy areas (outside major stations, commercial/shopping zones/streets) they are just not appropriate and must be removed as far as is reasonably possible.

Luke Bannar-Martin ● 2787d

Well said people may not have blue badges but could be carrying people who need to be dropped close by or have luggage. A transport interchange must be an interchange between all forms of transport. to pedestrianize the whole road in front of the station would be crazy as how would drivers get to the uxbridge road?? they cant use longfield avenue.

Peter Chadburn ● 2787d

Luke you said cars are like a plague. I think you have lost the plot. The station is an interchange between all forms of transport and all sorts of people doing all sorts of things. We must try to formulate plans that help all. That term includes the frail, the frightened, the elderly not necessarily disabled, the not so rich that cannot afford taxis, those with luggage or buggies/small children. Well designed transport schemes cater for all and cars I am sorry to say are part of that mix. My family had to adapt when my wife had an ankle operation and was disabled (not attracting a blue badge) and had to use cars to get to hospital appointments. We have a set of crutches, disable one foot and find out for yourself Luke. We are social animals and we evolved to get on together

Arthur Breens ● 2787d

So, we need car traffic along a road to make it safe for people to walk late at night?! Is that actually a serious argument for not pedestrianising a road? There are so many ways to counter this suggestion I actually cannot decide which to lead with!Peter, in response to your earlier comments about disabled access - of course, like all pedastrianised zones and roads, exceptions should be made for those who are disabled and have blue badges. As you say, Ealing Broadway station does not currently have disabled access - however, in less than two years (hopefully!) it will have disabled access, so surely it makes sense to reconfigure the road outside the front of the station to make it more pedestrian friendly and also easier for blue badge holders to access (by there being fewer cars)?

Luke Bannar-Martin ● 2787d

Pedestrianisation of a main street is about the worst thing that can happen..unless of course you want to walk home late at night and feel intimidated and at risk of mugging or worse. If you doubt what I'm saying, pay a late night visit and walk through  Hounslow High St.

Keith Iddon ● 2788d

No, I think there should be lifts at the station and there is going to be.I'd happily see the whole road pedestrianised so cars can't get anywhere near it, with special access for disabled badge holders and buses.

Paul James ● 2788d

It is difficult at the moment to get from the Broadway Centre  car park to the station as the pavements are narrow.  This needs to be improved as people nowadays trail suitcases with wheels.

Philippa Bond ● 2790d

Luke,There are ways to manage the pick up and drop off as other stations do it. To be honest as stations like Ealing Broadway are not Disabled friendly at the moment there are many people that have to drive. Disabled friendly Public transport would be a big improvement. to get from Ealing into London you have to use buses and then suffer problems with buggies. So without improvements getting rid of cars would condemn many disabled to an imprisonment. I drive to work every day and Public transport would take twice as long. Given that my journey time is nearly 3 hours a day I would be crazy to use public transport. I use public transport often and it is great for me to get to town but it doesn't work in all cases. Yes I am sure that better public transport would lead to less cars.. but when pollution comes from Buses waiting with engines running and from taxis we also need to deal with that. A station for maximum use needs a real interchange that will allow greater usage.

Peter Chadburn ● 2790d

Arthur,The vast and overwhelming majority of people who use Ealing Broadway station either walk to it or get the bus (including those in wheelchairs, with luggage and with buggies!). Why should so much of the small amount of space that there is outside the station be for a set aside for a minority to sit there in their cars? All the roads around Haven Green are just a parking lot during peak times - honestly, what is the point in driving to the station?!Cars are like a plague, get rid of them and places automatically become nicer - there are countless examples of this happening across London (and other cities) - Thurloe Street in South Kensington is my favourite example of this...

Luke Bannar-Martin ● 2790d

In our experience you have to be very disabled in order to get a Blue Badge.  Most probably too disabled to be getting on a train. People using Ealing Broadway often have luggage and children and are travelling out of London where they can be met at their destination station.  They also need to be dropped off at the station and may need help with their luggage.

Philippa Bond ● 2792d

Paul,Are you saying there should be no lifts in Ealing Broadway station? Are you saying that no one who is physically compromised by age, children or luggage should be helped to access the station's non-existent lifts? Are you saying the only people who can get near the station entrance are the rich coming in taxis? Just what are you saying Paul?

Arthur Breens ● 2792d

Arthur Breens ● 2792d

Otherwise, get the bus, cycle or walk to the station like the rest of us!

Paul James ● 2793d

If you're displaying a disabled badge then you can drop off pretty much anywhere.

Paul James ● 2793d

If the slides are available to be emailed out why on earth can't the plans be put in the public domain?

Tricia Arbuthnot ● 2797d

We were told there will be a public consultation in May. Watch out on the Council website. I doubt it will be widely publicised.  The presenter of slides and information at the ECIL meeting was Lloyd Johnson of Ealing Council Highways Service Tel: 020 8825 6046 johnsonl@ealing.gov.uk. After requesting them, I have received the slides electronically so I suggest anyone interested requests receiving them too. It would be great if we could achieve a better plan, otherwise I presume the current one will be served up for formal consultation. The sooner we object the better I feel.

Arthur Breens ● 2798d

As usual, some excellent points from Arthur.Where can these ‘plans’ be viewed?We need to be campaigning!

Mark Walker ● 2798d

The problem is that there is not a safe place for dropping off now and that the provision of a space for that appears not to be on the agenda. I sometimes drop off on the corner opposite but it is an awkward spot.

Peter Chadburn ● 2799d

Why not just drop off across the road at Haven Green?

Tricia Arbuthnot ● 2799d

Seems to me that Crossrail ought to have been persuaded by Ealing Council to make the exit in the Mall (from the far end of the platforms)  a serious entrance too with ample cycle access and parking. Cross rail have statutory authority to compulsory purchase so as not to ruin an area, particularly a Conservation Area,  because of their development. Why did Ealing let them off the hook? This would keep loads of traffic away from the main entrance and maybe that would allow for a drop off point near the lifts. It would also regenerate the shops in the Mall with the extra footfall.  I can't for the life of me think why this wasn't  done. Seems eminently sensible.....I'd better not speculate though......

Frances Zammit ● 2805d

seems they are attempting to make it more or less pedestrianised.As it stands now its a massive bus park with buses all over the place, going from left side to turn right.Because of the councils wisdom in barring turning out of Longfield options are rapidly dwindling into accessing Uxbridge Rd.Ealing Council & TFL are anti car

Peter Yale ● 2806d

Very True Arthur. Integrated transport means integrated transport. I would expect that at other stations there will be drop off points. Is this the Ealing Planning bias or is this TFL behind this. I remember when people were getting issued with dodgy tickets for dropping people off by a private company and the council said they were not enforceable. But around Ealing any paranoid parker knows that they have to be careful to avoid being part of the council revenue stream. I can understand when people sit in their cars for half an hour waiting to pick people up. But this would definitely be short sighted if that is true

Peter Chadburn ● 2806d