Forum Topic

Access to hospital care in Ealing and Acton Conventional Urgent and Emergency

Today I walked into main reception at St Mary's Hospital, Paddington twenty minutes after entering Ealing Broadway Station. The overground link is quick, the seats are comfortable, the trains are very frequent. I presented my X-ray request form from my GP and wait to have my foot X-rayed was about what you would expect while sitting in your GPs reception waiting to be seen, and here is the beauty of it: WITHIN minutes of the X-ray the images were reviewed by a doctor and the radiologist had come out to say that there were no fractures or breaks. More work needed, but not urgent, so back over to the GP. I didn't think that service like this existed anymore in the NHS!The cost of the return journey was £5.60 by overground (compared with £3.00 return by bus to Ealing General or Northwick Park - but with half the journey time).St Mary's Hospital is right next door to Paddington and is well signposted from the nearby exit from trains from Ealing Broadway. It has a full urgent care and emergency facility.I guess the same scenario would apply to people living close to Acton Main Line (though far fewer trains to Paddington stop there).For years we have had the ability to "Choose and Book" (subject to the controls of the local Clinical Commissioning Group) which hospital we choose to be treated at, however, St Mary's, Hammersmith, and Charing Cross (in Hammersmith) are useable for things like X-rays, blood tests, etc.The only negative to this is that Ealing Broadway Station does not have lifts or escalators (which would have been much welcomed today) however once on the platform its all on one level from then on into the reception at St Mary's hospital.I understand that lifts are being put in Ealing Broadway in 2018.

Mark Julian Raymond ● 3091d24 Comments

Well Said,Urs,you hit the nail right on the head,the nhs is in avery bad way,indeed for most of the reason you outline,and i dont see it changing yet?regards and happy new year,John.

Dr John Stolworthy D.Sc ● 3028d

Very true,in fact part of the mess the NHS is in is down to the building of fabulous shiny new hospitals using the PFI mechanism. The suck out so much money for the investment bankers rather than spending money on front line services. So the real reason for charing cross and ealing to close is for the land to be sold off to subsidise that costs of west Middlesex etc.. which were such bad value.

Peter Chadburn ● 3035d

Judith,Sorry but there is an emergency here in North West London. A bed emergency.Just like the evacuation of the Expeditionary forces from Dunkirk during the last war.None of those soldiers started arguing on the beach that the craft that they had been assigned to to bring them back to England was the wrong shade of blue. My successful appendix operation was carried out in emergency temporary buildings that were erected during the war.Wonderful but no architectural prizes.

Arthur Breens ● 3035d

I have been to every hospital in the NW London area over the years and a couple of others like St. Mary’s and Charing Cross. Some are better than others as regards clinical care but when it comes to a sense of well-being and positivity Ealing must take the prize as the most negative and least user-friendly of all of them. Just standing in the car park looking at the building you can feel your heart sink. There’s something of the utilitarian “Soviet bloc” about it. Inside the feeling persists. If sick building syndrome actually exists, Ealing Hospital is very unwell indeed. It infects staff and patients alike. I once remarked to a consultant how depressing the whole place was and I couldn’t wait to get out of it - she said “you can leave anytime, I have to work here”. Personally I think the place should be bulldozed and a new state-of-the-art building replace it, but that’s unlikely to happen. It happens in Scotland, though.

Judith Jaafar ● 3036d

Mark,no matter how you dress up this situation,the fact is none of these Hospials A & E Services should have been closed,how can you have a University Hospital without va A & E DEPARTMENT !!!,is not correct that people have to travel so far for treatment in an Emergency,lets hope someone with some sense corrects this situation soon,lives are being lost due to Ambulances having to travel extra distances because of these changes.regards John.

Dr John Stolworthy D.Sc ● 3036d

Urs, I am delighted to discover that you are a real person!In solving a problem:1) Admit there is a problem,2) Identify things needing fixing,3) Fix them.Our local politicians haven't got as far as admitting that there is a problem. The approach by local politicians and local government, and usually central government, is to:1) Shoot the messenger - label them a troublemaker, then remove them from a position where they can comment,2) Express support for those perpetrating the problem,3) Give those failing to deliver what they should (and what they are capable of if they pulled their finger out) a vote of support in the local ward forum in an on-going policy of appeasement rather than responsibility.This is the case regardless of whether it is allotments, the local police, or the health service.We should be campaigning to fix the health service, improve the services, and part of that must be removing those that are incompetent, closing down that that does not work, and most importantly training our own home-grown doctor and clinicians  and building facilities.We live in a system where ALL the main parties have lost touch with the electorate and with reality it seems and we are left voting for the person that is perceived as the least-worst as there is no one there that actually has a sensible plan or any kind of inspiring political vision let alone a pratical plan.

Mark Julian Raymond ● 3047d

Indeed, Penelope (and Mark, I promise you, I am a real person with real concerns - having experienced crap as well as truly inspiring staff in recent years - believe me, it was worse 20/30 years ago...).While EH is not perfect by any means, we need good hospital care that we can get to easily as well as something that could be called an improvement if we were made to travel further. However, neither St Mary's (bad ratings for several services) nor Northwick Park (the pits, apparently) offer a better service, while Charing X is often highlighted as excellent by those who have received treatment there. The building is of a similar age, hence not up to scratch in many ways, but both Ealing and Charing could be re-built on the same grounds, with the valuable extra land sold to developers (they are selling off the family silver anyway - that's why they want to close the two hospitals in the first place), but the NHS is aiming for bancruptcy overall so they can then call the private sector in. They are already doing this, with Ealing CCG (and other CCGs) in the process of finding a private firm to deliver out of hospital services, for example.NHS planning/thinking is wrong - and our council, as well as H&F's, is refusing to sign up to the strategy for a good reason. You cannot close hospitals BEFORE you have other provsions in place that actually work. Our population is getting older and needs more hopital beds and aftercare, but the care has to be sorted out BEFORE you shut down hospitals. Our population is also growing - with or without new arrivals from abroad. NHS England (on instruction of the current governent) is tying to run down the current system to a totally unsustainable level, to the extent that everybody is totally desperate, and it would cost too much money to ask the tax payer to fix it - and then you privatise the whole lot............Does it ring a bell? Public transport? Regular hefty price rises to keep the shareholders happy?

Urs Esser ● 3048d

No, I am not upset by anyone's comments but thank you for asking. It's appreciated. I am merely agreeing that it would be wonderful to have a good local hospital. I am worried if I have to travel too far afield but I have very little confidence in Ealing as it is today. It isn't necessarily the staff's fault but there are fundamental problems with the building itself, its funding, lack of parking etc etc. The quality of the care is at best 2nd rate.(with some exceptions). I don't want it to close but I want it to be better. No politics here. Just statement of desire.

Penelope Crocker ● 3048d

I am sorry, I spelled your name wrong Urs, teh name you gave is "Urs Esser" and I mistakenly called you "Urs Essex". Sorry. Likewise strong emotions over this highly personal subject led me to accuse you of being a "socket pucket", I am actually asking whether you are a "sock puppet", not a "socket pucket". So two spologies there.Also I hope that I have not upset you, Penelope, in drawing on what you have said into my rhetoric. My apologies, if I have in any way.

Mark Julian Raymond ● 3049d

Dear Urs,You are missing the point here. Everyone wants a working accessible local general hostpital in Ealing. However, no one is listening to its users (as TV documentaries have shown). This is a local website and I bring my local view to it, not the UK trade union politik and propaganda, I am concerned with the quality of care that I get, my family, gets, my friends and negithbours get.My experiences have been consistent on many visits over a generation. By speaking of events a generation ago Penny Crocker and myself are underlying that this has been going on for a long time. No one in the local political system has the guts to address the situation as Ealing Hospital has become politicised beyond all reasonable attempts at reform and improvement (or even local scrutiny).Actually, the encounter I spoke of was 21 years ago on reflection and not 23, I did have distant phone interaction with the hospital 23 years ago in trying to locate a deceased relatives possesions which failed completely. My first physical encounter came at 21 years.Not all of "encounters" have been entirely dreadful, though where they have been successfull its has tended to be with outsourced services, for example, the combination of NHS Direct referring people to the out-of-hours contracted-out GP clinin worked well until the success of NHS Direct forced the government to cut back on it as so many people were using it and the costs were therefore rising too high!The problem with the oursourced units in Ealing, of which there several, such as ENT and Eye which are off-shoots of other hospitals specialist units is that outside of the hours that the clinic functions a couple of times a week there are NO SPECIALISTS in these disciplines on site. So. for example, if you come in to A&E you will be shipped off to Northwick Park ENT if that is the requirement, or will have to wait for a VERY LONG TIME before a consultant comes.I musk ask this of you Urs as your post reads like a piece of political marketing propaganda emanating from a central trade union campainhing office: is there a person called "Urs Essex" or are you what is known as a "socket pucket" which is a fictitious marketing entity created to disseminate propaganda on web fora and by e-mail, and also have you ever attended Ealing Hospital?By the way, Ealing A&E is not "local" to everyone in Ealing. Other hospital A&Es are closer depending on where you are located in the London Borough  of Ealing, and with considerably better performance figures and waiting times. It is local to Southall, and I think that you will find that its postal adress is in Southall. It probably should have been called "Southall Hospital", but it was replacing a bunch of small well-regarded abs friendly  Ealing hospitals such as the Acton Cottgae Hospital and the King Edwards Memorial so I guess it had to project a "bigger" image.So Urs, are you concerned with the patient receiving the best care available (as any clinician would be) or are you concered with political ideology?P.s. While you seek to rubbish my comments (and Penelope's by co-location) by saying that this is "not about treatment somebody received 20 years ago" you are missing the point, I am not "somebody", Penelope is not "somebody", I am me, Penelope is Penelope and we are entitled to have our own opinions and relay the facts, the problem is that people like YOU are NOT LISTENING, people matter, not the politics.

Mark Julian Raymond ● 3049d

The problem is that if Ealing and charing Cross close which is the current plan then people will die. Quite simple truth. The plan is to replace with a clinic and to still call that a hospital. The plan is fundamentally dishonest.

Peter Chadburn ● 3049d

Urs, understand what you're saying and I agree with you. It s not just about money - although that plays a very important part. The building itself isn't fit for purpose - it has to be the most badly designed building I've ever been in. I don't want the A&E to close either because of the distances involved to find alternatives. If a hospital is constantly under threat of closure it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. The staff are so demotivated they don't work well.

Penelope Crocker ● 3049d

I am sorry, but this is not about treatment somebody received 20 years ago - most of us have stories to tell - and it is not about the nicest/most horrible nurses etc. right now. It is about excellent departments Ealing Hospital has - but that will be gone in no time unless we fight back hard.The same goes for Charing Cross Hospital, btw. It has a top-notch stroke unit - not much longer thoughWe stand to lose the only local A&E that is so badly needed, Ealing will become a glorified health centre, we all have to travel further - to hospitals that are not necessarily performing well - Northwick Park - hello? St Mary's? Uhhhm.Yes, there is some reform needed, but NOT the kind of reform the current government is trying to impose. You cannot cut beds/literally close hospitals with hundreds of beds when you have to announce that you have to cancel thousands of OPs in Jan/Feb just because you cannot cope - because you have too few beds. A big London trust already run out of beds today... The NHS plans are leading to an even sicker population, making it harder for all of us to get the right treatment.Join the fight: http://www.ealingsaveournhs.org.uk/

Urs Esser ● 3049d

My first encounter with Ealing Hospital was also about 23 years ago. It was not good. My GP was unhappy with what happened but was unsurprised.What is interestimg is that I have encountered many motivated and kind staff there, probably people that are on the whole nicer than in other hospitals that I have attended. They try to deliver the treatment that they think that you need though are often visibly frustrated or just stumped at not being able to do so through an imperfect administrative system and lack of resources in terms of people resources, equipment resources, working/not working equipment, even medication (as you have encountered in the area of pain killers in end of life care, Penelope, I had friends and acquaintances who encountered low grade near end of life care at Ealing Hospital with medication particularly in the area of antibiotic quality).For outpatient care as a matter of policy most departments are unable to fund even starter courses of medication via the hospital pharmacy pushing the cost of the medication immediately onto your GPs budget rather than on their own, you are handed a note and are left to wade through your GPs adminstrative delays and telephone triage which can take a couple of days before you can get the medication (even more if the pharmacist has to bring it in "next day" after that) that could be issued on the spot in Ealing Hospital pharmacy if it wanted to and which would be norm in other hospitals.Often there are significant amounts of effort expended even by consultants in finessing the administrative system to meet administrative quotas in trying to deliver what you need, effort that could be better spent delivering medicine rather than tick boxes.

Mark Julian Raymond ● 3049d

My first encounter with Ealing Hospital was also about 23 years ago. It was not good. My GP was unhappy with what happened but was unsurprised.What is interestimg is thatI have encountered many motivated and kind staff there, probably people that are on the whole nicer than in other hospitals that I have attended. They try to deliver the treatment that they think that you need though are often visibly frustrated at not being able to do so through an imperfect administrative system and lack of resources in terms of people resources, equipment resources, working/not working equipment, even medication (as you have encountered in the area of pain killers in end of life care, Penelope, I had friends and acquaintances who encountered low grade near end of life care at Ealing Hospital with medication particularly in the area of antibiotic quality).For outpatient care as a matter of policy most departments are unable to fund even starter courses of medication via the hospital pharmacy pushing the cost of the medication immediately onto your GPs budget rather than on their own, you are handed a note and are left to wade through your GPs adminstrative delays and telephone triage which can take a couple of days before you can get the medication (even more if the pharmacist has to bring it in "next day") that could be issued on the spot in Ealing Hospital pharmacy if it wanted to and which would be normal in other hospitals.Often there are significant amounts of effort expended even by consultants in finessing the administrative system to meet administrative quotas in trying to deliver what you need, effort that could be better spent delivering medicine rather than tick boxes.

Mark Julian Raymond ● 3049d

I too am ambivalent about saving Ealing. Their treatment of both my father and mother when they were dying was appalling....callous and inadequate. The staff were at best indifferent and at worst downright cruel...withholding painkillers to my father in the death throes of cancer. I should have complained at the time but was far too emotional and upset to do it and it's something I bitterly regret. However, the last couple of times I've ben to A&E with my son and daughter, I thought they had improved slightly. My maternity care there (23 years ago) was also better than in Addenbrookes which has an excellent reputation. What worries me is the distances and time taken for elderly people to travel to say Hammersmith or St Mary's or the Chelsea and Westminster or the Marsden and it must be nigh on impossible to stay motivated if the threat of closure hangs over Ealing staff all the time.

Penelope Crocker ● 3050d

As a campaigner trying to preserve  Ealing and Charing Cross Hospitals I need only say one word and that is "BEDS".All hospitals in our area perform a balancing act...balancing supply and demand. The Shaping a Healthier Future plans removed two A&Es Central Middlesex and Hammersmith. The A&E performance dropped in the whole area set against the 4 hour waiting time and has remained there ever since. Thus we in this area get a much poorer service than the rest of the country when measured against that target. Without any hospital closure there is a bed shortage. The Shaping a Healthier Future Plans were to close around 500 beds. There is little choice now. If these plans go through there would be less choice just longer ambulance journeys and longer waits on trolleys for beds to become available. £70,000,000 has been spent to push these cuts through. Money that most of us think is wasted. A drowning man doesn't pick and choose. We'll need every bed and hospital in this area now this Christmas. Happy Crisis.

Arthur Breens ● 3051d

Thank you Philippa, I didn't realise that the St. Mary's Urgent Care Centre had been under special measures. Is that the same as the Emergency care where the ambulances arrive or is that something different?There are many hospitals in West London all within very close proximity compared to rural areas and yet we are given very little imformation about the options available to us. After 20 years of truly appalling experiences at Ealing Hospital I spend time doing some research when I need to go to a hospital so that my GP doesnt shoe-horn me into Ealing.I just do not understand the constant campaigning around saving Ealing. What I know is that very few people who would go there again given the choice once they have been there. It may be a vote winner among the trade unions and those who work there to support Ealing politically, however, it certainly is not a vote winner among many of those who have had to use it.Now a campaign to "fix Ealing Hospital" I could support, but not to keep it going in its current form.

Mark Julian Raymond ● 3052d

I do have to apologise to Northwick Park. My experience with the Oyster Card top up was at the Central Middlesex NOT at Nortwick Park. There is no facility to top up an Oyster Card after 6pm within walking distance of the Cental Middlesex - please note. I don't knwo why I typed Northwick Park, I guess I must have been half asleep at the time, I have since been corrected by a friend who read the account and said: surely you meant Central Middlesex, that is where you went!

Mark Julian Raymond ● 3052d

The Urgent Care Centre at St Mary's has been in Special Measures hasn't it?Andy Slaughter writes about Imperial College Healthcare Trust.www.andyslaughter.co.uk/when_the_facts_change

Philippa Bond ● 3052d

Yes transport access has always been an issue. My late girlfriend used to go to the Brompton and I always drove her there as she could not use the Tube. However a couple of visits to St Mary's we went on the Train from Hanwell. But these underlying changes that are being proposed are not about choice. Yes we should not be confined to the local hospital but we know they want to close it along with charing cross in order to sell the land for housing. So whether Transport, Health, Affordable Housing etc.. there are many challenges facing us and i feel that the folk in westminster have no answers. i have also been sent to St Mary's in the past. Yes lifts for crossrail stations will make them more accessible. But for the disabled there are even more challenges in Travel.

Peter Chadburn ● 3084d

Tricia, I have thought long and hard before writing this.At the end of the day the clinician puts the patient first and ensures that the patient receives the right treatment regardless of local politics, quotas and cost. If the right treatment for you is out of the borough then that is what you should receive. Once a hospital has accepted your referral it is up to the NHS to provide transportation to and from your home if you are unable to get there under your own steam.I have highlighted this particular option as I do not think that most people realise how much choice they actually have.Access and trensportation are amajor issues where half a century of misguided politically-driven decentralisation has left Ealing a difficult place to access publice service. The public transport in Ealing is based on a bus system radiating in a star from Haven Green. It is very easy to get from anywhere in the borough by bus from Haven Green and vice versa very easy to get from most places in the borough to Haven Green. For example, the Gurnell leisure centre is two bus rides from me by bus whereas the old Longfield Baths that were located behing the old Town Hall were only one.As I am a non-driver I rely on public transport, or on friends with cars when I am not well enough to use the public transport. My experiences with both Northwick Park and Ealing Hospital have been strange to say the least. A while ago on my last visit to Ealing Hospital I was taken by car by a friend and when we got there we found that there were no free short stay parking spots available. There are very few to begin with and the 20/30 minute ones appeared to be permanently occupied by Ealing Hospital clinicians (judging by the ID cards in the windows). The 60 minute slots at the front of the hospital were occupied by an enclosure of building contractors' portakabins, equipment and materials who were working on some part of the hospital maintenance. Clearly the 60 minute spaces were not generating revenue so were sacrificied first leaving only the paid for spaces.Meanwhile, at Northwick Park, a few weeks ago I ran my Oyster Card into deficit by accident getting there. Although Northwick has a bus station built into it there are no failities within one mile of hospital where one can top up an Oyster Card after six o'clock at night.The only place within a mile is the Post Office across the junction and that shuts at six. The nearest place to top up would be the nearest BR railway station a mile away. There are no staff on reception at Northwick Park and the only staff to be seen that are customer-facing are security guards.The 24hour ASDA across the road does not have an Oyster Card top-up capability at its newsagent desk as it cannot get an Oyster Card franchise (too much competition for the Post Office I should imagine) and the gentlemen there laughed so often does he come across the situation. At least he knew where the nearest Oyster could be topped up - a twenty minute walk away for somebody who is fit and healthy.There is definitely a lack of joined up thinking going on.

Mark Julian Raymond ● 3085d

Pleased to hear about your good experience but remember a large proportion of people who need to visit hospital can't do so by public transport. For them it makes little sense to shift local provision to the centre of town.

Tricia Arbuthnot ● 3086d

Good to hear positive comments. I had two weeks in St Marks and also the same in Northwick Park earlier this year. I was satisfied. I would give both 8/10. The only thing totally unsatisfactory thing is the latter's chaplaincy. No help at all despite me contacting both PALS and the local bishop.

Graham Weeks ● 3091d