Forum Topic

No Police Stations and no Hospitals in LB Ealing

On Sat 30th September I am joining a March and Rally to protest against the closure of Ealing and Charing Cross Hospitals and their A&Es and the axing of 500 beds. After last night's Police and MOPAC meeting outlining possible police station cuts in the Borough I think I should be marching for the police as well. Never in the history of human endeavour have so many institutions been decimated by so few in power. Even Hitler never took out the infrastructure of our civilisation to the extent of the demolition that we now face. No hospitals. No police stations. What next?

Arthur Breens ● 2972d22 Comments

yes we always get the blame for the NHS and as you say it's all the people coming to get the free bees

Harold John Ward ● 2956d

4% ageing population is due to the demand in NHS services??Latest government propaganda.So lets deal with them before an influx of thousands more are permitted to live & settle here,make large families, all of whom will be entitled to NHS services amongst everything else.Hurry up Brexit

Peter Yale ● 2957d

"across the nation similar hard choices are having to be made">> But that's the point.Arthur is quite correct.They are choices.They don't need to be made.There are alternatives.Now, of all times, we must make sure better choices are made.

Mark Walker ● 2957d

I started off by thinking that it would make no difference to life in Ealing if the Ealing Common/Northfields/South Ealing local police station closed. Then I realised it would probably make things better. At least there would be a change of some sort with different people. Perhaps we might get some police that would want to do some real police work some closing down Roddys Bar in South Ealing with its cadre of drug dealers sitting outside it every night. Perhaps some police that might be fit enough to actually physically apprehend some of the moped drug dealers in South Ealing. Most of the ones I see are so fat I wonder how they can stay on their feet for the whole day. Even some new police that did not spend their nights hanging out with same said dealers in places like Crispins, the Castle, the Red Lion and the Plough while turning a blind eye to what was going on around them in those places while they are there.Closing Ealing police station can only be for the good.And as for ultra-politically-correct South Ealing Road local station, well all they seem to do is "police up" normal law-abiding people up for the local CHAVs in South Ealing.

Charlie Murray ● 2958d

also with the CPZ in Hanwell there are no doubt many hospital workers who will lose their parking. This is a key aspect. The logic of many things does not add up. This is a pure exercise in asst stripping dressed up as improving service.

Peter Chadburn ● 2958d

with all the extra house's and flats we will need the hospitals and police station because of all the extra people they are building Ealing up and up and with crosrail more people are going to move her so this makes no sense at all so get your brain in gear Mr Hunt

Harold John Ward ● 2958d

I'm not sure there is no financial benefit at all to the NHS from these arrangements but they are obviously counterproductive if staff are having to give up a portion of their inadequate wages to park. This is particularly the case here in London where inadequate London weighting and the need to live a long journey time from work due to high property prices means that this is going to take a meaningful  chunk out of their take home.The problem with things like this is that nobody looks strategically at such decisions. The extra cost in agency staff due to shortages cause by people being discouraged by low pay driven down by associated costs probably outweighs revenue brought in from parking.

Andy Jones ● 2959d

Sorry perhaps very off topic here but just curious...When were things like car park contracts privatised and why?Just visited Northwick park to visit a relative and was shocked by the hourly parking rates being charged.I find it incredible that the NHS are not benefiting from this directly.I was more astounded to hear that the Nurses / staff have to pay a monthly fee to park there themselves!https://www.apcoa.co.uk/press-news/latest-news/

Paul Mullan ● 2960d

'we need a government that makes all those tax-shy multi-national comps pay their due, heaps of money to end the NHS crisis.'Would that it were so simple. Lots of governments throughout the world have set out with a resolution to tackle this issue with no success. Ultimately operating under several tax regimes will always allow a company to reduce its tax burden by transfer pricing. I'm not endorsing this practice just saying that tackling it is fiendishly complex and probably ultimately fruitless.You also need to consider that recent reductions in corporate tax rates seem to have led to a big increase in corporation tax receipts.

Andy Jones ● 2960d

Wrong - we need a government that makes all those tax-shy multi-national comps pay their due, heaps of money to end the NHS crisis...

Urs Esser ● 2961d

Think we are all aware of the problems and clearly it is right to be particularly concerned about the declining number of hospital beds both locally and nationally at a time when demand is only going to rise.If commitments under PFI are determining choices in some way that is unfortunate but the NHS can't renege on these contracts so there isn't an easy way around this. It seems to me the people making these decisions are faced with an impossible challenge. They need to square a limited budget with ever rising demand. Some hard choices will have to be made whoever makes the decisions so in the absence of fully costed alternatives I'm personally inclined to accept that what is being recommended is as good as we will get. Not doubting the sincerity of opponents generally, particularly people who have posted here, but I think some of the opposition to the plans is opportunistic most notably that from Ealing Council.

Andy Jones ● 2961d

The logic Andy is to close the non PFI hospitals like charing cross and ealing so that the money can go to subsidise west middlesex. The issue is that when we see an increasing population in this area that the decision is driven by the desire to close these hospitals. any consultants will have the job to deliver and justify that and so this is never going to be a proper review of health needs in the area

Peter Chadburn ● 2962d

The population of Ealing is rising so let's close 500 beds. Good idea?My wife was due an "elective" operation, twice put back and also offered a private alternative paid for by the NHS. Good example of slack in the system?Let's close two A&Es and pretend that performance hasn't dropped and remains stubbornly low in the whole area even after money has been pumped into A&E at Northwick Park.Let's use the ambulance service to ferry the sick all over the place because of shortages and put them under strain.Let the developers build thousands of homes along the Crossrail/Uxbridge Road corridor and then take out the best placed services Ealing and Charing Cross ie those on this corridor.The business consultants have got it wrong badly wrong and no one wants to say so because they cost so much.And we need the PFI hospitals too.

Arthur Breens ● 2962d

As PFI hospitals were all built more recently what would the logic be in closing them? Presumably they have facilities which are appropriate for a modern health service in the way that older buildings don't. Also the way they operate the NHS would be subject to early termination payments so there would be no financial gain.What ever the issues about management inefficiency the NHS locally needs to have a strategic plan. Within that you inevitably have to look at the assets you have and invest in those which are effective and downgrade those which are not as useful. Whether the NHS have got this right or wrong I don't really know but I don't think it would be right to constrain them by saying they are not allowed to close or downgrade any facility.

Andy Jones ● 2962d

The key point is that the hospitals that they want to close are not PFI hospitals and so can be disposed of for a lot of money that can be used to subsidise the expensive PFI hospitals. This would have been the plan from day one. But consultants would have been brought in to justify that plan. It is clear that constant reorganisation adds extra layers of inefficient management to waste money more effectively.

Peter Chadburn ● 2968d

Arthur, on police stations I am working on the assumption that generally by the time these things get to the consultation stage the decision has actually been made.On the NHS I don't think it is necessarily right to make a distinction between consultants and NHS management. Like most large organisations the NHS doesn't have the spare resources to plan and manage a big reorganisation so they will bring in outside consultants (most of whom will probably have worked with or for the NHS before). They may be expensive but bringing them in is probably a lot cheaper than hiring in extra permanent staff to do the work. The consultants will ultimately come under the control of senior NHS managers and clinicians and will be operating within parameters set by them.

Andy Jones ● 2968d

Andy,The feeling I got from the meeting was that MOPAC and the Police had come to no conclusion. This was a consultation process so to say "Acton is to remain open." doesn't reflect what was discussed. Acton was best equipped but Ealing was best sited and 3 hubs were mentioned.As for the health service reorganisation in North-west London I don't think the NHS management were involved. A consulting firm was used. Data collected over the period since the first two A&Es were closed show a sharp and continuing downgrade in performance in the whole region. That continued failure to reach the 4hr target has been repeatedly fudged/spun by the NHS managers. 4hrs was the target that has been repeatedly missed. That is long enough to be waiting on a trolley. 6 hours is unacceptable. And suddenly after those closures we have some of the worse rates in the country. Again not quite right to say "across the nation" Andy. I am sorry but we were told that hospital closure would be matched by alternatives in the community and 5 years on we have seen none of these hubs just shed loads of money spent on the same consultants paid to rewrite their flawed plans. I form the impression those 500 beds we are about to lose can't be replaced by investment elsewhere. Well maybe we are left to die prematurely in our own beds at home.

Arthur Breens ● 2969d

Acton police station is to remain open and that is in Ealing borough.You may not like the plans for the NHS in the area but across the nation similar hard choices are having to be made. Demand for NHS services are rising at 4% per annum due to the aging population and this pressure on resources is going to continue. More money is being spent by Government but they are not really keeping pace with demand so service quality is under pressure.The question you need to consider is do you think that the existing facilities need to be subject to some sort of preservation order and protected from closure or do you think that NHS management should have the discretion working within a fixed budget to decide how their resources should be allocated even if it means closing certain units to invest elsewhere?

Andy Jones ● 2969d

Well there was something on the news today that we need well over a thousand more (rather than less) hospital beds, supported by senior docs - surprise...NHS England does not seem to think so and wants to turn Ealing and Charing Cross into glorified health centres, dah! Well, there are huge pieces of land involved they can sell for gazillions while we just have to travel further.Yes, join the march against 'closures' - they don't like the word - 11.30 Acton Park or Southall Park from 11 - marches join on Ealing Common for a rally. Go, go, go!Ealing Council and H&F are on our side - they have refused to sign up to the mad plans; now it's our turn to say no.

Urs Esser ● 2969d

Erratum I meant paediatric not geriatric sorry.

Arthur Breens ● 2972d

When a district general hospital loses its A&E, any operating facility, maternity, geriatrics, most of its beds leaving only 50 for the frail and elderly and when most of the site including carparks is sold for housing one might deem that it has closed as a district general hospital and would be more accurately called a polyclinic. Same fate awaits Charing Cross. Complete madness when demand for beds nationwide is increasing we have to make do with 500 beds less.

Arthur Breens ● 2972d

Closure of Ealing and Charing Cross Hospitals? Really?

Graham Weeks ● 2972d