Forum Topic

Travellers in the park!

They moved in yesterday evening at 11:00pm onto the Elthorne Park extension having circled the area from 8:00pm trying to find a way in.The police blocked the 'school lane' entrance by St.Thomas's church but, as I reported to Ealing Council's supposed 'out of hours' service at 8:30pm the pikies were congregating at the Westlea Road/ 'Eversheds' entrances.The out of hours service was a joke, I had to explain that Hanwell is, in fact, in Ealing and then waited while the operative tried to find an 'appropriate drop down category on my computer'.  I even had to look up the postcode for her on my laptop while on the call!My request for action was met with 'it will be passed to Parks and Cemeteries' to deal with as soon as possible.Another clean-up bill beckons  for local taxpayers because Ealing will no take pre-emptive action to make our public spaces secure.

Paul Gibbs ● 3185d22 Comments

The discussion over fly-tipping has gone on to discuss Jeremy Corbyn and Diane Abbott, and EU membership!!Wonderful!Can we have a separate thread for those please - I want an online discussion about a local LBE problem of fly tipping - issues and solutions.Perhaps then local councillors will take note.

Mark Walker ● 3170d

It is something called Joined up thinking. In Britain we love bureaucracy and so people love to handle these jobs as little empires in competition to preserve their own status. A culture that is neither creative or healthy. Innovative solutions can never happen when this occurs. Funny that people voted to leave the EU because of Brussels interference and dictating to us what bananas we can eat. However the real problem is our petty officials who implement these rules.

Peter Chadburn ● 3171d

Ealing Council is probably not alone in local government in not being very good at seeing the broader picture. The department that is setting the high charges for building waste is tasked to reduce landfill from Council waste sites and they are probably succeeding in doing this. Other departments will be responsible for dealing with fly-tipping and traveller encampments and so there will be no corporate understanding of the problems that are being created.

Helena Cavanagh ● 3171d

I have had to pay several times over the last year for relatively small amounts of building waste from my own DIY projects.  The amount paid has been pretty steep.  Its way more expensive to get rid of half a bag of cement than it is to buy it.  Charging for domestic rubble is common.  And how it will be in the future.  Also in Hounslow the local tip isnt open to the public during the week, only at weekends.  I would imagine then that the queues are pretty lengthy.  So its not difficult to see how many people would just pay a small amount of money to someone without the relevant licence to take their rubbish away.  Obviously many people dont realise the consequences.  The Councils are being very short sighted over this massive and expensive problem.

Emma Renton ● 3175d

That's an interesting point I hadn't considered. It explains a conversation I had with the people at the Greenford tip recently. I'd always taken in relatively small amounts of building waste from DIY projects assuming as I was in a private car they wouldn't stop me. The last time they inspected what I had and said as what I had was probably under the weight allowed there would be no charge but in future there may be. In the perverse way that Government works Ealing Council probably make a tiny fraction of what it costs to manage the traveller problem from charges of disposal of building waste and there is also the money spent on cleaning up flytips to consider.

Andy Jones ● 3176d

That'll be part of it.But a minor part.Soft touch UKEasy national comms these days for the fraternity of any typeStretched law enforcementGo figureSomeone else's turn once the teat runs dryBut dont ever forget about the civil liberties of the few, f*** the rest of us

Colin Goodman ● 3176d

I was chatting to a police officer who attended one of the encampments. He said the reason there are so many travellers coming to the area is that Council tips have really tighten up on accepting building waste and increased charges significantly. This has meant that there is a gap in the market for commercial waste disposal which the travellers are filling therefore there are many more of them than there used to be.

Helena Cavanagh ● 3176d

So instead we are constantly paying for them to be moved on and for the mess they leave to be cleared up.

Philippa Bond ● 3178d

Yes, see:https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2016_01_28_opdc_gtaa_draft_report_new_cover.pdfpage 2 para 5.6It is worth reading the whole document, but simply put, there is one site in Park Royal for 24 "permanent" pitches. these are for families who need to stay in one area for a reasonable length of time due to illness, old age, schooling and similar.  LBE had a statutory duty to review the requirements of transit sites, for short stays in 2008 and made the decision there was no requirement for a transit site in the borough.  I don't think there is a transit site in any borough in West London.  The current Old Oak and Park Royal (OPDC) study 2013 finds there is no requirement for a transit site, not sure this just means in that area or includes LBE in total.

Libby Kemp ● 3179d

Libby, are you saying that the current problem is the fault of Ealing Council due to inadequate provision of sites for travellers?

Helena Cavanagh ● 3179d

What would I do?Well it's simple really.As soon as the first tip of builders rubbish, the first mattress, the first lump of human waste is deposited on public green land you go in and clamp the vehicles. You issue a seizure notice if the rubbish isn't cleaned up and you keep on their tail. Seize the vehicles to pay for the clean up.Unfortunately the physical answer is barriers on open spaces in this green and pleasant land. However I hear the breaking and entering rule is also now being flouted anywayThe cries from the loony left and do gooders will remain whilst Council Tax payers foot the bill and OUR way of life effected.Not digging you out- it just came across a bit sort of remote in your response

Colin Goodman ● 3182d

The Ealing provision for Gipsy and Traveller sites is in the Old Oak and Park Royal development area (OPDC). There is one public site with 24 pitches for permanent caravans, no private sites with permanent planning permission, no sites with temporary planning permission.  There are no sites for transit provision anywhere in Ealing, Brent or Hammersmith and Fulham or Kensington and Chelsea, which is probably how these families would be classified as they stay for a week or so and then move on. LBE carried out a statutory survey in 2008 and decided there was no requirement for transit sites in the borough and thereby did not have to provide one.  Prior to 1979 all local authorities had to by law provide transit sites. Oxfordshire County Council Manage the three permanent sites in West London, Brent has 34 pitches and Kensington and Chelsea 19.  OPDC carried out a “Gypsy and Travellers Accommodation Needs Assessment (GTANA)” in 2016 a copy of the draft report is available:https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2016_01_28_opdc_gtaa_draft_report_new_cover.pdf

Libby Kemp ● 3182d

I am sure they pay Council Tax !

Dennis Brogan ● 3183d

Action has to be taken to ensure that they can't get on to the Common. Bollards are needed. This is beyond a joke

Simon Bell ● 3183d

There was a lot of activity yesterday afternoon, with police and someone from Ealing Council, and apparently the travellers were served Notice, and this morning, they have all gone (moved onto Ealing Common I believe). Well done Ealing Council and the Police for their quickness in this matter.  Unfortunately the travellers have left the usual disgusting mess behind, dirty nappies, broken glass etc...  Elthorne Park Extension does have an emergency gate to secure the park area, but due to Ealing council's neglect it was left unlocked, which made it easier for the travellers to access the site

Mary Devine ● 3184d

I have recently realised that "Travellers" is a misnomer. If they were, residents would be happy.

Graham Weeks ● 3184d

Not sure what I have said to warrant that hostility Colin. My point was that in the short term it would be easier for the police to monitor one site rather than two. As you ask the nearest green space to me is Acton Park which has suffered from this problem earlier this year. It seems to have avoided any problems in the latest round of occupations but that is probably because there are ongoing building works which means that, like in Gunnersbury there is 24 hour security.If Elthorne Park can be secured then it should be but that will just shift the problem to elsewhere particularly Ealing Common which seems to have already happened. The question remains to anyone criticising the police - what would you be doing instead?

Andy Jones ● 3184d

Where do you live Andy? Any open spaces right next to you?Let us know and we'll be sure to send them your way to have them concentrated in that one placeCheers

Colin Goodman ● 3184d

Kicked off Elthorne and took up residence 30 mins later on Ealing Common?

Mark James Robinson ● 3184d

What pre-emptive action are you proposing? I am not really familiar with Elthorne Park but for an area like Ealing Common there is no practical way of preventing access.As for the complaint that some of the travellers were let on the site after the police had arrived - aren't the police right to conclude that it is better to have them concentrated in one place rather than having two sites to clear.

Andy Jones ● 3184d

Hi Paul.. Ealing council out of hours emergency service is useless.. complete waste of time.  I phoned them this morning and am still waiting for a call back.What I don't understand is that the Police, at around 7ish last night, blocked the entrance to Elthorne Park Extension preventing the remaining Irish travellers entry and then at 9.45pm they allowed them all in, with a Conduct information sheet, which they must adhere to whilst on Council land.  I did phone 101, non emergency police, to ask that question, but was told it was a Council problem.  Ealing Council left the gated emergency exit unlocked in the first instance, so that anyone can gain entry.  I did witness threatening behaviour, both towards police and public, from at least 3 of the young Irish lads, one was holding an iron bar at the time. I'm disappointed in both the police and Ealing Council's actions in this situation.  They should hang their heads in shame. 

Mary Devine ● 3184d

Mary Devine ● 3184d