Forum Topic

The cashless society: is it time?

I see from the front page that someone tried to rob delivery men bringing cash to HSBC in the Broadway today (July 4th).There are many benefits to a cashless society. Not just preventing attempted robberies like these, but a huge crackdown on tax evasion. Is it time to move towards a cashless society? Is there a downside?Discuss.

Susan Kelly ● 3135d25 Comments

How is it 'Much harder to control your spending and manage a budget'?

Susan Kelly ● 3112d

Downside of cashless society:Massive invasion of privacy (Time and time again banks have "lost" or had stolen customer details and information).Much bigger opportunities for cybercrimeMuch harder to control your spending and manage a budgetMuch harder to be sure you are charged correctly.Big Data: the data revolution means your spending habits would easily be collected and analysed.  Anything from being told your teeth are decaying because you buy fizzy drinks to targeting advertising would be possible.Could think of a lot more adverse effects, but honestly, the loss of privacy is enough to convince me.  I personally don't use contactless payments at all, ever.

Barbara Dore ● 3113d

Is it good news though? Smaller shops pay proportionally more than large businesses so it will be yet another way in which independent retailers are disadvantaged in competing with chains.

Andy Jones ● 3119d

Good news.Surcharging to be banned. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40648641

Graham Weeks ● 3121d

Retailers have to pay fees every time a customer uses a debit or credit card. UK retailers paid £800m in such fees last year, this affects small businesses more than large companies.

Fred Hunt ● 3122d

Fat chance of cashless when some retailers put a surcharge on card payments, even with debit cards.

Graham Weeks ● 3123d

There was something in the papers this week about the government encouraging small businesses to go cashless.I am tired of having arguments with tradesmen who tell me that if I pay them cash then they won't have to charge me VAT. I tell them icily that we would both be committing a criminal offence and employ someone else.I can see billions of pounds of evaded tax becoming available every year by these means.

Susan Kelly ● 3123d

As far as I am concerned it will never be time to go cashless.I prefer to be ' holding folding' most of the time.

Keith Iddon ● 3126d

reminds me of the saying that the paperless office is as likely as the paperless toilet.As an IT professional of 40 years i still like the idea of cash. In my own head i know i have withdrawn £50 a few days ago and i have x left. Much easier to budget when you hand over money. rather than having forgot all the small payments using the connect features. No surprises for me.

Peter Chadburn ● 3126d

Chris,Some people do not have a computer or cannot use one,we now find companies who require you to have a e mail address before you can order?lets get real here,we will never for somecondiderable time have a cashless society.regards John.

Dr John Stolworthy D.Sc ● 3127d

There needs to be an incentive to get people to pay their cleaners and gardeners by bank transfer.Children as young as 11 can get a debit card.There are cheap deals out there for retailers to take cards but a lot of small shops just want cash and are not prepared to run there businesses in a professional manor.If I was starting a service related business employing staff I would concider just taking cards.

Chris Lucy ● 3127d

Susun,In short the awnser is NO,NO,NO,regards John.

Dr John Stolworthy D.Sc ● 3127d

"largely theoretical dangers of state intrusion"Here's theoretical, I could give you more:Cyprus: panic as savings levy is imposedhttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/16/cyprus-savings-levy-imposed-eurozoneNegative interest rates: A "dangerous experiment"http://www.cityam.com/235112/negative-interest-rates-have-insidious-effects-and-are-a-dangerous-experiment-but-theyre-creeping-in-to-economies-around-the-world-experts-warn-cash-could-be-abolished-while-asset-bubbles-grow

Brian Woodgate ● 3127d

If the lack of cash genuinely does become an instrument of repression I think the very technology that killed it off will also provide alternatives to the conventional banking system. Bitcoin already exists and other means of exchange could be developed.We have to look at the very tangible benefits of a reduction in the use of cash most notably in strangling opportunities for spending the proceeds of crime. These offset the largely theoretical dangers of state intrusion resulting from all our transactions being recorded. As 99% by value already are the bridge has already been crossed on this one anyway.

Andy Jones ● 3127d

"I'm not sure the end of cash will do much more to compromise the way in which our lives are already intruded upon"I think that analysis is faulty. People are sleepwalking into this. Without cash the state basically owns and controls your own wealth and your access to it: they can introduce spending controls / limits, they can prohibit you from buying specific things, they can introduce negative interest rates to encourage you to spend more, they can impose arbitrary saving's levies, you wake up one morning and 10% of your savings are just gone, they can control how you are able to move your savings around, for example preventing you from moving it to an overseas bank etc etc - they can do all sorts of things.And yes, even your small purchases would inevitably become marketing data to profile and target you, and at the very least government departments would have to access to your data profile, which could be used to control your access to services. This is the way it's going.A fellow called Tiberius once said: "How eager they are to be slaves". But what's happening in 21st century Britain is off the scale. Have they put something in the water?

Brian Woodgate ● 3129d

I'm not sure the end of cash will do much more to compromise the way in which our lives are already intruded upon by people who control the data about our transactions. They are going to be far more interested in the big ticket items we already use cards for than the smaller ones we currently use cash for. That battle has already been lost.Better to focus on the benefit of the gradual squeezing out of cash from the economy; it makes it far more difficult to be a successful criminal because most lucrative crime is paid in cash and if spending it becomes more noticeable you will be easier to catch.

Andy Jones ● 3129d

Yes but if someone takes your cash it is your loss. If someone clones your card and defrauds the system it is the bank's loss. The banks know that there are always going to be fraudsters but the challenge for them is to be a step ahead technology wise.

Helena Cavanagh ● 3129d

The system used by current contactless debit, credit, and travel cards was tested in Europe before it was used. The tests proved that a card that was not screened could be read, and hence cloned, from a distance of around 9 feet using a standard reader set to maximum sensitivity.An unexpected number of complaints about unauthorised withdrawals after visiting a petrol station in Hanwell led to convictions for cloning cards using a computer that monitored the card machine.Cloned cards can be produced cheaply anywhere in the world, used within a very short period soon after the data has been stolen, and huge amounts stolen before the problem is noticed.

Christopher Bell ● 3133d

If you're not able to walk out of the bank with your money in your pocket it isn't truly yours, and you are vulnerable to all manner of state controls and rules such as negative interest rates that governments may use to stimulate spending in difficult times. Many central banks are already talking about this.There is also a privacy downside, whereby you will be unable to make any kind of transaction, like buying a bar of chocolate, without there being a record of it in a searchable database somewhere.It's a terrible idea.

Brian Woodgate ● 3133d

In recent months RBS & Natwest had software/hardware failures, imagine a catastrophic cyber attack on payment systems (like the attack on the NHS)  - what back up would there be? If the cyber attacks originated from North Korea as suggested, a sustained attack could send western economies into meltdown, imagine , more damage could be done to countries this way then conventional warfare... cash is here to stay...

Kris Smith ● 3134d

At this stage it would also be putting small independent traders at a huge disadvantage. Large chains seem to have a deal with the card companies that allow them to put through low value transactions without a charge whereas corner shops always seem to have a minimum amount. They would have to absorb this extra cost if customers were expecting not to use cash.

Helena Cavanagh ● 3134d

I absolutely loathe the thought of cashless society. being berassic anyway, what lttle money I own I like to see, feel & exschange so I can see when its gone.These weird & wonderful apps ruin life, the art of communication & are to black & white. Any problems cannot be dealt with. Its the same every where, banks, stations, supermarkets. They never work & a real person is needed

Peter Yale ● 3134d

The cashless cards were used to withdraw a total of £180bn from UK cash machines last year. Under 16s don't get cards, so how do schoolkids get and spend pocket money?

Fred Hunt ● 3134d

Not yet.  Too many people are not able to use the technology and it isn't reliable and safe enough.

Philippa Bond ● 3134d

The time to move to a cashless society will be when everybody has completely reliable internet connectivity and computer security is flawless.That could take a little while.

Nick Goodliffe ● 3135d