Forum Topic

A&E

Where will our options be if Ealing A&E, Charing Cross, Central Middlesex and Hammersmith are closed? Are we just left with West Mid?

Penelope Crocker ● 3008d49 Comments

It needs more investment - and the correct investment. You can't demoralise a workforce, decimate teams and expect to make sensible savings at the same time.  How much money has been wasted in government on failed IT systems?

Philippa Bond ● 2996d

There is something called "Hospital at Home" in which there is a "Home Ward" at ealing hospital with Nursing staff going out visiting patients in their home administering treatments and monitoring patients. This week my girlfriend was suffering from a bad chest problem and would normally had to go to hospital. But the came to the house provided a nebuliser and took blood and daily monitorings. She has improved and hopefully will be discharged from that soon. It is obviously one of the good and innovative solutions for the NHS. But beneath it we see complacency and disregard on the part of the government. But this Hospital at Home is definately a good idea.

Peter Chadburn ● 2999d

Probably none Jean. It needs a complete and sweeping overhaul and would involve massive investment in IT and huge reorganisations. Far easier just to split it up and privatise.

Penelope Crocker ● 2999d

It is obvious that massive savings must be made to save our NHS but how much resolve is there to get something done about it?

Jean F Fernandez ● 2999d

Most Europeans have ID cards and they are a useful show of entitlement. My Portuguese girlfriend has a citizen card with a chip and whether health, social security or police this shows entitlement. So this is easy to check. So a similar thing here would have ensured far less benefit and other fraud and also would prove entitlement. We have no photo proof. I know what would happen is that our clipboard johnnies would end up charging loads of British folk who have no id. This is why we are a stupid country.

Peter Chadburn ● 3000d

These cases are only about half a percent of the cases that go through the hospitals.  How much is it going to cost to trawl through all the patients admitted to identify all those not entitled to "free" care and to employ more administrative staff to chase around after them attempting to get payment?Did you father have to show his passport?  For elective care you can now expect to have to show photographic ID.  Not everybody has this.  How many thousands of pounds worth of hospital care do you think is needed as a result of the dire state of the pavements?

Philippa Bond ● 3000d

Another incident where a patient from Shanghai was sent back home with no less than 3 SOLID SILVER Tracheostomy whereas patients in this country have to make do with Plastic.Governments can throw money at the NHS as much as they like but until the entire system is given a complete overhaul from top to bottom the situation will just go from bad to worse!

Jean F Fernandez ● 3000d

What about the nursing staff who left specialist drugs (costing £10,000) which should have been kept in a fridge, it was only discovered the following day and the drugs had to be thrown away!Perhaps the NHS staff should be told exactly how much the drugs cost and maybe they would not be so cavalier with these items?Each item should have a price on the front because it might just go some small way to prevent this sort of thing from happening!

Jean F Fernandez ● 3000d

My father was recently in hospital in St Marys Paddington . Next to him was a lovely , extremely rich Shanghai busisnessman who had been in for 7 weeks after an accident . On leaving he told me he was astonished nobody had invoiced or questioned him about the cost of his care (37 fractures ) . To say non Brits getting free NHS treatment is nothing as they are not being questioned or invoiced !

Dennis Brogan ● 3000d

What would be good would be if PFIs could be sorted out somehow.  Surely there is a way to stop all these badly advised, secret contracts with public money continuing to drain the NHS.  Both Labour and Conservatives used these to fund hospital building.

Philippa Bond ● 3001d

When they do that they can reduce the rights of the personnel.It makes it easier to hire and fire. It may suit the paperwork better.  It also destroys teamwork and puts a lot more pressure on the other members of staff when the agency staff member can't easily slot into the job they are given and doesn't know their way around and other personnel and how to work specialist machines - and there are lots nowadays.If the contracts staff are offered directly don't suit them then they may get more suitable working hours and better pay from an agency.  I'd like to know how much better the working conditions are for staff in Australia.  Certainly they had a patient to staff ratio there when there wasn't one here.  The staffing ratio has improved since the Stafford problem lifted the lid but there are still many problems.

Philippa Bond ● 3001d

It certainly was the same here with IVF - multiple embryos were replaced - and probably still is.  There certainly in the past were a lot of premature births partly due to multiple embryo implantation.  I remember the complaints about the problems this caused in intensive care then.  The number of embryos replaced at a time has also reduced due to better understanding of the risks and chances of success for each particular woman.  There used to be a very low rate of achieving a successful pregnancy let alone carrying a single baby to term despite multiple embryo implantation.    We have regulation by the Human Fertilisation & Embryology Authority overseeing IVF and the number of embryos allowed to be implanted is I believe now regulated here.  http://www.hfea.gov.uk/fertility-treatment-risks.htmlIt's amazing to think that Louise Brown - the world's first IVF baby conceived with the help of Steptoe & Edwards in the UK - is now 38 years old and technology keeps moving on!www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-33599353

Philippa Bond ● 3001d

The country will get what it has voted for. A Tory government has full control to do as it pleases. Brexit has added fuel to this fire. After all, the people have spoken.

Penelope Crocker ● 3001d

Another question, why are NHS staff able to leave employment and return as agency staff obviously costing the NHS much more money?Why are NHS Managers allowed to stay in their jobs even after breaking the rules?

Jean F Fernandez ● 3001d

It isn't that long since many women were not allowed to go out to work after marriage or did not earn. They worked looking after their children, their homes, their community and their elderly relations.  Any jobs were for "pin money".Now when universal pay is being discussed as more and more jobs are computerised and many people don't earn enough to actually pay tax it is too late to complain that they are not paying in enough.The Government is deliberately underfunding the NHS.  Consecutive governments have failed to sort out the problems of the lack of coordination between social care and hospital care.  This Government has failed to bring in the promised cap on personal funding of care costs.

Philippa Bond ● 3001d

I agree with Paul.  It is a deliberate political attempt to bring the NHS to its knees.

Philippa Bond ● 3001d

All the more reason why savings should be made where possible.It is the people who have paid into the system who are now suffering the consequences!

Jean F Fernandez ● 3001d

Whatever!

Jean F Fernandez ● 3001d

It doesn't need to save money.It's been massively underfunded, strangled, squeezed and stretched by the people responsible for it.So called "Health tourism" is a teeny tiny drop in the ocean for it, but a handy "look over there" to divert your eyes away from what's actually going on, under-investment on a massive scale to run it down.

Paul James ● 3001d

Actually I understood that - but what on earth is John Stolworthy trying to say in that strange message above?

Thelma Leach ● 3001d

The discussion was about ways the NHS could save money.

Jean F Fernandez ● 3001d

When we had French friends staying they insisted on flying home for treatment rather than suffer our medical services here.

Philippa Bond ● 3001d

My cousin lives in Spain and in line with most Brits there has never learned the language. When her husband was in hospital with pancreatic cancer, she was provided with an interpreter free of charge at all times when she was with him and he was also given one at very treatment stage when he was on his own. Let's not pretend that we alone provide these services.

Penelope Crocker ● 3002d

By the way if an interpretor is needed for a patient that is a minimum of £300.  The person will be paid a fee for their journey to and from the location plus an hourly fee after that.

Jean F Fernandez ● 3002d

A former NHS Consult Surgeon revealed that some IVF Clinics in Nigeria implant multiple embryos to get better conception results. The trouble is this leads to multiple and early births. Because intensive treatment for premature babies is hugely expensive in Nigeria, women there are encouraged to fly to the UK for treatment.The article went on to say that while Priscilla cried poverty over the NHS bill, she was able to find the money for flights first to Chicago and then London, which would have cost many thousands of pounds.Apparently the cost to the NHS for 1 incubator per day is £2,000 so this would apply to each premature baby. Then the mother would have cost at least £3,000 per day. I believe the length of stay was around 10 weeks.

Jean F Fernandez ● 3002d

I'm sure that there is much stricter regulation of IVF in this country than there is in Nigeria.  There used to be more problems with multiple births here than there are now due to this.  I don't believe the lady intended to be in the UK and it all seems a bit desperate - but that can be the nature of childlessness. However it seems the same with any private treatment - the NHS ends up picking up the bill when anything goes wrong - and it shouldn't be. It was frightening hearing on a radio programme recently how many people would consider having plastic surgery.  There is obviously not enough regulation here. There is too much temptation to consider cost first and not check out the surgeon and the relationship between the surgeon and the place/hospital/clinic where that surgeon is working and what would happen if anything goes wrong.

Philippa Bond ● 3002d

Sorry - this message is completely garbled.  What does it mean?There is underground parking at Chelsea & Westminster - at a price.

Thelma Leach ● 3002d

Well said ,Jean,regards John.

Dr John Stolworthy D.Sc ● 3002d

She was turned away from America because they realised that she would not be paying for treatment. Of course this country is a soft option for health tourists and this is not a one off example by any means of the imagination.The only way to tackle this would be for ALL travellers into the UK have insurance to cover them should they fall ill during their stay,The NHS cannot afford to treat anyone and everyone who arrives on these shores and the sooner steps are taken to encourage people to stop taking advantage of our NHS the better, patients are being denied surgery because of incidents such as this.Workers in the NHS are aware of the problems but are afraid to speak out. My friend experienced this on a daily basis during her 9 years in a High Dependency Unit in a well known London hospital.The situation mentioned above is just a top of the iceberg.

Jean F Fernandez ● 3003d

The so called health tourism is only about one half a percent.  It sounds a lot because it does cost a lot to be in hospital.  Perhaps there should be more of a requirement to make sure that more visitors coming in have travel insurance just as most of us going to other countries take out.  It isn't going to cover everyone though.  I notice that the UK Border Force have those who haven't paid their hospital expenses listed but since we don't seem to know who is here and who isn't I don't really see how that helps.

Philippa Bond ● 3003d

'What about the health tourists too, the latest one has apparently cost the NHS £500,000 will they recoup that money?'If you're referring to the Nigerian woman with the sickly babies, she is not 'a health tourist': she went into (very) premature labour at Heathrow where she was transferring from a flight from the US to another back to Nigeria. What would you have done with her? Left her to give birth on the tarmac?What happened to simple humanity?

Susan Kelly ● 3004d

Try asking those who actually work in the NHS where money is being wasted.

Jean F Fernandez ● 3005d

It's a myth that the NHS wastes money, it's a very efficient service (Well, was before this lot got their hands on it)...So called health tourism is a tiny drop in the ocean.

Paul James ● 3005d

Penelope,there is no parking at Chelsea and Westminster the Mortuary is open twenty four hours,however that's a defeatistattitude and I don't think you,however when I die I don't want to be there? regards,John.

Dr John Stolworthy D.Sc ● 3005d

Yes, good luck with getting to Chelsea and Westminster in rush hour ! May as well take the poison oneself and die for one's country.

Penelope Crocker ● 3007d

It can take hours to get an ambulance - and when you see the the ambulance people waiting in queues at A&E to hand their patients over you can see why.

Philippa Bond ● 3007d

Philip,I am sorry I do not agree with you,a person laid in aActon street for three and a half hours,for this so called fully equipped and staffed Ambulance  emergency services arenot meeting the attendance times required,and persons are being taken  privately and by Police and Fire Brigade Vehicles,I would imagine many die waiting for help,we are not told,all is not well far from it,regards John.

Dr John Stolworthy D.Sc ● 3007d

I gather that current thinking is that, for best medical care in emergencies, effective treatment is delivered when well equipped and staffed ambulances first pick you up and start to treat you on the spot.  Distance to hospital not that important thereafter - you are in good hands.For many that want to make their own way direct to hospitals - perhaps not a real A&E candidate?

Philip Coe ● 3007d

Penelope,Who ever heard of a University Hospital not having aAccident and Emergency Unit?We have them plus enormous waiting times,sorry about the travel distances,regards John.

Dr John Stolworthy D.Sc ● 3007d

The waiting lists are so long in one part of the country that patients right at the bottom of the waiting list are now being transported by TAXI to a private hospital for scans! The scans are I believe costing £5000 in the private hospital and the taxi costs each way (total about 180 miles)on top of that.  This is being done on a regular basis I believe.Whilst this is great for the patients urgently waiting for scans the money being spent in this way would surely be enough to provide more equipment for the hospitals concerned.There is an awful lot of money wasted in the NHS when you think about it!What about the health tourists too, the latest one has apparently cost the NHS £500,000 will they recoup that money?How about the Filipina who had heart surgery - unpaid £59,000.Also what about pharmaceutical companies who charge the NHS 1000% mark-up for medicines? Ibuprofen, Paraccetemol and Asprin can be bought for pennies yet on the NHS on can get these items on prescription costing so much more!

Jean F Fernandez ● 3007d

I'd agree with that as well!  They don't want to provide and pay and they also don't want to raise taxes.

Philippa Bond ● 3007d

I should qualify this. Japan has 100,000,000 people and healthcare is excellent.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_system_in_Japan

Paul James ● 3007d

>There are too many people. This is nonsense.If there were 10,000 people this government would make sure there weren't enough services.

Paul James ● 3007d

Thanks John. Not exactly close though are they?

Penelope Crocker ● 3008d

No Penelope,you have,Hillingdon,Northwick Park,Mount Vernon,Chelsea and Westminster,and of course,St Marys Paddington,regards John.

Dr John Stolworthy D.Sc ● 3008d

These changes are all about asset stripping to pay the debt that the NHS has to service for all the shiny new PFI hospitals and so a prime site like Charing Cross if it was redeveloped into apartments for foreign investors would bring in the money to make the other hospitals viable. The PFI time bomb is hitting home hard with so much of the NHS budget being diverted to PFI investors and not nurses. But the reality is a mortgage from wonga.com and the worst deal possible for us taxpayers. Invented by the Tories and implemented big time by Gordon Brown it has saddled high costs on hospitals all over the country. But no one mentions it at the moment because Tories love it and Labour should be embarrassed by it.

Peter Chadburn ● 3008d

There are too many people.  If we run a super-efficient cradle to grave service then there aren't enough cracks for vulnerable people to fall through. The rich don't want to be paying for everybody else.  They will use the NHS when it suits them - eg when any private medicine goes wrong the NHS ends up picking up and sorting out the problem and no doubt the bill too.  This needs sorting out.This isn't what anybody voted for.  It wasn't in the Conservative manifesto.  The Conservatives famously said that the NHS was safe in their hands?  Unfortunately only a small proportion of the population sees what is going on as only a small proportion are using the hospitals at any time.  This is where the Hospital programme is so good. How is it we can have surgical teams  walking around in circles unable to start their planned surgery (planned months in advance) because there isn't a bed free for that patient when the surgery has finished?Generally everybody is very grateful for the care they get in A&E.  That is where you will see the very best of teamwork.  What we need is to have a better system of getting people well after their visit and back out of hospital safely into the community.  Support from family and friends for someone in hospital is critical.  Changing the systems all the time is detrimental.

Philippa Bond ● 3008d

I think you may be right. What on earth is happening here?

Penelope Crocker ● 3008d

The funeral director is what is left.

Peter Chadburn ● 3008d