Forum Topic

Northfield Avenue - footfall deterrent?

One of the attractions for moving to this area was a local high street with independents, not a McDonalds or Starbucks in sight and long may that last. We determinedly try to do our bit by regularly going to the butcher, dry cleaner, baker, Cheddar Deli, the flower shop etc.Today I decided to go out and continue working while having lunch at Creperie Cila having run some errands on Northfield Avenue. I parked opposite in a marked space, there were no other cars there. Imagine my surprise when I returned to my car to find a lovely yellow bagged PCN waiting to help me digest. Upon closer inspection I saw the 30 minute sign.Given posts on this forum about most people's desire to save our independent shops and increase reducing footfall, is this not wholly counter intuitive? £20 at the dry cleaner, £15 pounds at the cafe, shoes in for new soles...and a nice new PCN! Is the council trying to make it unappealing to spend money in our local shops?

James Putland ● 3617d17 Comments

I am very unconvinced by the research I have read that purports to show that cheaper, better, less fascistically enforced parking is not good for local business. The problem that these kind of reports face is that they have to deal with the fact that the most reliable and unbiased evidence available to them contradicts their findings. Every business owner in shops on Northfield Avenue and other secondary shopping areas like it will tell you that they way parking is controlled and enforced affects their business. The academics would have you believe these people are universally deluded and can provide some carefully chosen statistics to demonstrate why.The problem to me is not the restrictions per se but the intensity of enforcement. In the not too distant past there may have been parking charges but there wasn't the constant patrolling of highly incentivised traffic wardens. In the past if you had to pick up some dry cleaning or a pint of milk you could reasonably safely nip out of the car without the faff of buying a ticket. Now when I embark on a journey like this I have to consider do I have change or is there charge on my phone so I can try and use Ringgo. If there answer to either of these questions might be no then I'll do my shopping somewhere else a bit further away.

Andy Jones ● 3604d

Scuzzy is the right word.

Debbie Edwards ● 3613d

Places to eat. To have Lunch or dinner. Takes longer than 30 mins.Certain shops and services take longer to do than 30 mins and whilst it could be better, it is far from scuzzy as Avenues with shops go.

Mark Kehoe ● 3614d

Why would anyone need to spend more than 30 minutes in this street anyway?

Debbie Edwards ● 3614d

Wide buses in Northfields Ave  go back to 1968 and it's fair to say such was the chaos and delays caused not just in Northfields but Pitshanger, Greenford Hanwell and Ealing Broadway, that that was the turning point for many who resorted to getting a car to get around locally.It simply became too unreliable for many to get kids to school and get to work and on time.That's when my mum got a little car as it just became impossible almost overnight doing it all by bus.None of the roads locally were ( and still are ) ideal for 8ft wide buses and 36ft long ones were a disaster not put right until 1974. By then the precedent was set and buses were no longer the first choice for most. At the same time the GLC allowed an increase for public vehicles - dustcarts and fire appliances from 7'6 to 8ft followed by national HGV increases in axle loads, widths and lengths equates to the general decline in street maintenance which increased beyond the means to maintain.

Mark Kehoe ● 3615d

Another twisted view from Paul, fact its not a motorway, nor a car park.Its not going to change, people use cars, people need somewhere to park, shops need people to survive, simple facts, so not fundamentally wrong for today its what today is.One point Mark missed is the width of the newer buses, too wide to pass each other at times.

Declan Devine ● 3615d

But fundamentally wrong for today.Even if Northfield avenue started out as a cut through local shops need be attracting customers now from the local area.This isn't going to happen whilst it is little more than a motorway and car park.

Paul James ● 3615d

All very well explained, Mark.

Susan Kelly ● 3615d

That doesn't mean they are right.It's often cited that making it more "difficult" to park discourages people from further away coming to the shops but it's been shown shopkeepers massively overestimate the trade that comes to them in that way (with some exceptions), and again, making it more attractive for people in cars to come discourages the people that they really need to be attracted to local shops; local people that would otherwise walk or cycle to them.We really have been doing it wrong for years, so much so that people can't see past the car these days and how it is destructive to our local shops.

Paul James ● 3615d

There's a huge difference between a radial town or market town where everything converges to a centre.Pedestrianisation tends to work in those places and the modern versions have periperal car parking.Northfields Avenue is a parade of shops that grew from an arterial Lane and is not radial.  Banning or restricting traffic is simply not possible without destroying any chance of viable commerce.It was developed from the arrival of the railway and the housing stock just pre dates the arrival of affordable motor cars. Go further west and the later housing  towards Boston Manor Road have garages and off street parking.Further west still and these become larger for larger cars.So like South Ealing Road, both are hugely reliant on passing trade and not being radial, are not always near enough for even residents to walk when it can wait till the weekly or fortnightly shop at a supermarket.Northfields ave has a few pinch points but it is seldom a race track or gridlocked.  An E2 Journey from Brentford/ South Ealing to Northfields stn or Ealing Bdy or vice versa, is often quicker than the same journey on the 65 to South Ealing stn or EB.  Sometimes the E8 is quicker than both even with double the mileage. It depends on the time of day.But if the parades are to survive it has to be a range of things. Free short parking. Low cost parking up to 1.5 hours and options of space.Long wheelbase vans and delivery trucks need to be restricted to certain times and parking in the Avenue itself should be restricted to smaller or normal sized cars. The single biggest problem has become huge wide large cars which are often wider than the parking bays. This does cause problems for through traffic and the bus in particular.Car and van design has been internationalised and we now have small cars which almost contradict the definition of small . Compare the original Mini or Fiat 500 to the current models. At this end it is more to do with safety.At the other end of the scale though, large cars and vans are now huge by comparison.At the same time road space has actually been reduced and established streets cannot be physically widened.  There should at least be a restriction of the use of oversized vehicles which are unsuitable in urban areas and parking  spaces to encourage use of smaller vehicles.  With space for larger vehicles available but not in as convenient locations.

Mark Kehoe ● 3616d

I can usually find somewhere to park near the Cheddar Deli.

Susan Kelly ● 3616d

Don't think the shopkeepers would agree, they fought hard to keep free parking for 30 mins, as do most high streets.

Declan Devine ● 3616d

This is worth a watchhere

Paul James ● 3616d

Northfield's avenue is always choc-a-block with parked cars, dangerously so a lot of the time, so I'm not sure lack of parking is a valid issue, given that there's nowhere to park.I'm afraid the equation "more cars and parking" = "more shoppers" doesn't work on our highstreets and in fact more cars actually discourages the very thing you want to see on our shopping streets; pedestrians.

Paul James ● 3616d

It's hardly a motorway.It's been a busy road for well over 50 years and traffic is a lot slower than it was along the road than a decade ago.It is the lack of parking and the cost of parking and the fact that many of the better shops are not exactly affordable to patronise on a regular basis.

Mark Kehoe ● 3617d

Paul, while we might agree in principle, the realty is that people will drive. I agree, lack of parking is the deterrent.

Penelope Crocker ● 3617d

The biggest footfall deterrent i reckon is the busy motorway running through the middle of the shops...

Paul James ● 3617d