Forum Topic

WHEELIE BINS and the LAW

Ealing has dictated that all of us residents must use wheeliebins.How come ? I think that the law relating to rubbish collection is that every local authority has a duty "to arrange for the collection of household waste from any premises" and "can require the occupier to " place for collection receptacles" for that purpose; the occupier has, of course, a duty to receive those receptacles BUT " The kind and number of such receptacles shall be only such as are reasonable " ( Sections 45 and 46 Environmental Protection Act 1990 ) (you can look it up on Google).My enquiries have shown that this has been ignored and that the only test relates not to the number of people in the household but to the whether or not there is room for the bins.So it is that my wife and I must accommodate two wheelie bins and a food waste bucket when, for years, we needed only a white bag for plastics, a green plastic box for bottles, tins and paper etc. and the food bin and even they were too big.I have been ordered to alter my small front garden if it is not suitable for two wheelie BinsThe law above is not a guideline; it is mandatory UNLESS I AM OUT OF DATE.AM I ?????

John Gilbert ● 3625d50 Comments

Libby, can you confirm that you were able to get your 240 L recycling bin swapped for a smaller one?  When I rang customer services I was told that although we could apply for a 120 L rubbish bin, we had to have the large 240 L recycling bin.  If you've managed to get a smaller one, that is very good news.

Sarah Dinsmore ● 3587d

If you would prefer smaller bins new post on "Ordering smaller Wheelie Bins".

Libby Kemp ● 3590d

When there were four of us we managed to only put out a carrier bag of residual waste every few months.  Make the most of the food waste bin and recycling all that the Council ask for in the recycling wheelie and you'll be able to reduce the amount considerably.  The people who will have the biggest problems are those who don't use what is already on offer and we are asked to use, and also those using nappies.  There are new alternatives for both babies and adults so it is worth keeping up to date.  Those of us online have an advantage.There are street recycling banks and there are recycling banks at a lot of supermarkets.  You will get most of your packaging from them - so take it back!  In Germany I believe people take packaging off that they don't want before they leave the supermarket.

Philippa Bond ● 3591d

Yes the Brentham Estate and Bedford Park are getting preferential treatment.  I questioned the very nice officer who came round this evening to swop the bins, he wouldn't be drawn on why they were getting preferential treatment, I think he was embarrassed about it. If you push hard enough they will deliver small bins for rubbish and recycling.  Mine were delivered about 30 minutes ago.

Libby Kemp ● 3591d

Is it fact that the Brentham Estate and Bedford Park residents are getting preferential treatment in terms of choice of smaller bins?  If so that is disgraceful. Not that they get the choice but everyone should do as well. May be the schools in those areas get preferential treatment and funding as well?  That rant aside I can only assume that the push for larger bins is that many single person and small households will, by default, revert to a monthly cycle of collections - not really a problem if food and other biodegradable waste is kept out as it should be - but let the Council be open about it.  Or maybe leaving a bit of leeway, in terms of bin capacity, to push for longer cycles than 2 weeks in the future. I think I might order a 1,000 litre bin so I only need to put it out every 6 months.

Philip Coe ● 3591d

I had my 4 new wheelie bins delivered last week and put them away so it does look a bit better  ..Today i had an other 4 delivered in my front garden !!!!Shall we all boycott those horrible bins ??

Philippe Bruyer ● 3592d

Whilst I am seriously up for the veterans section of the Wheelie Bin race against Bedford Park (see post on Acton W3), I think we should take the issue seriously.  I will not be dictated to by Ealing Council about what I will and will not store on my property, neither will I succumb to being a second class citizen whose views have not been taken into account because I don't live in Bedford Park. This has been a top down very badly implemented supposed method of improving recycling.  I am a conscientious recycler and have been for more than forty years and all without the use of wheelie bins. Some very smart streets such as Shilling Place in W7 do not have to have wheelie bins and if Bedford Park and the Brentham Estate can have 120L bins then why can't we? The Ealing Facebook page says that the normal vehicles are not set up to take 120L bins, so have they purchased a special lorry for these wards? If they had carried out proper research they would have realised that most houses would prefer the small bins as they are already recycling to a high level and leased lorries accordingly. I am also incensed that officers have told householders in Ealing that they will have to remove their plants and lay slabs or concrete to accommodate the bins. This will probably negate all the 2% recycling will gain in terms of the environment.

Libby Kemp ● 3592d

You can also opt for larger bins to share with neighbours, but again the regular sized ones have to be delivered first and then they'll be swapped 'later' whatever that means. At 07.30 on Bank Holiday Monday we were woken up by the sound of 4 large bins being delivered, on top of the 4 regular ones we had delivered last week. All in a tiny front garden that serves two flats, where we intended to share just one pair. Whoever at the council is managing this rollout needs to be dealt a huge dose of common sense.

Andy Hamm ● 3593d

Apparently, you can request a smaller bin at any time, but first a regular one has to be delivered.What Orwellian nonsense is this!Why am I paying people to do this?

Mark Walker ● 3596d

Please don't alter your front garden to take wheelie bins, the RHS and other bodies are campaigning strongly to keep front gardens as gardens and not parking spaces and bin stores see http://www.theecologist.org/blogs_and_comments/commentators/2924736/keep_our_front_gardens_green.html

Libby Kemp ● 3596d

We understood we would get four 240 litre bins ( 2 rubbish, 2 recycling) and that as we live in a house with four flats, we would have to share a bin with another flat. Today got four *360 litre*. They are ENORNMOUS!

Terry Freestone ● 3596d

They are also managing to get a smaller recycling bin - although they may have to pay for it.

Philippa Bond ● 3596d

Bedford Park councillors have taken up the cause of their upset constituents and have arranged a dedicated email address at Ealing Council. Their large wheelie bins will be swopped for small ones by the end of this week. See ChiswickW4 website and the help Gary Malcolm has given his constituents.

Libby Kemp ● 3596d

I duly filled in the form on line, requesting a smaller rubbish bin (smaller size apparently not available for recycling) but have just had the large one delivered. Given that waste from this household is about half a black bag every 3-4 weeks, it is absurd having this behemoth. I just wish it had been possible to have a small size for both waste and for recycling.

Sue Rowe ● 3596d

Interested myself -- ours are simply too big for ahouse with only two people in it who are reasonably careful with waste

Colin Goodman ● 3596d

Oh do they come in smaller sizes. That would be useful to know. Also, of course, how could they be obtained.

Lynda Sixx ● 3596d

Small, standard and large?  Are there 3 sizes available in Ealing?

Philip Coe ● 3596d

Thanks Paul, The small ones are a little too small, I just wanted the standard ones instead of the larges oversized ones.An email to the local Councillors has hopefully sorted it out and I should be getting them replaced.

Lee Page ● 3597d

You can request a smaller (narrower) black bin.https://www.ealing.gov.uk/site/xfp/scripts/xforms_form.php?formID=185&language=en

Paul Webster ● 3597d

Does anyone know who the supplying company or manufacturer of the bin are?

Lee Page ● 3597d

You are as a council tax paying resident entitled to see the safety case and certificate of insurance for the wheel bin ( council property ) on your property.You won't though because it has not been carried out and like Hounslow they will not comply with such requests.When will a councillor of any party start demanding these issues are met and clarified to all households?

Mark Kehoe ● 3597d

I'm miffed as to why we've been given the LARGE variety of bins, rather than standard. There is also no option to downsize it on the council website.I can only wish that the people of Ealing will vote out Labour however most will probably be led like sheep to vote the same old way.

Lee Page ● 3597d

The bins are hideous but a change of council won't reverse the decision. Also, while we're on the subject of lower spend, Walpole Park has been transformed into an unkempt space with fewer shrubs and virtually no flowers in order, not to change it back into an estate garden as is lauded, but simply to mean that very little money is spent on horticultural maintenance. I noticed even Hyde Park has been allowed to 'go wild' in parts. Eco friendly my f**t.

Penelope Crocker ● 3597d

Phillip,of course you are right,there was little wrong with the old system rubbish will still be spilled on emptying thewheelie bins,I and many others can think of better ways to spend  £3 Million Pounds which I am informed was the cost ofthis extremely  unpopular exercise.Roll on a change of Council.

Dr John Stolworthy D.Sc ● 3597d

If we're talking about encouraging an attractive urban environment, I for one will be very happy to see the back of all the crap that covers the footpath on my street after foxes/pigeons/crows/god knows what else have gotten into people's black bags and strewn the contents around by every Tuesday morning.

Chris Gilson ● 3598d

I don't think that anyone is arguing they are not practical in the right circumstances where they don't present fire hazards and can be concealed.  You could also argue that cutting down all the trees that line the Borough's streets would also be practical and save money on annual tree maintenance/pruning/replacement etc.  But who would want that?  I firmly believe that an attractive urban environment promotes local pride and good behaviour.  On the contrary if the powers that be demonstrate a patent lack of interest in the appearance of our streets then many residents will also loose pride and interest everything quickly slides downhill.

Philip Coe ● 3598d

I am pleasantly surprised by the two wheelie bins that arrived outside my house last night. They are not too tall and not too heavy and less obtrusive then I though they would actually be. They have a lower centra of gravity than the older taller ones and the ones that shops ise. I can work with these!True, I would still prefer black bags collected weekly and I am dreading getting the right bin out in alternation.

John Murias ● 3598d

Simon,you are dead right,they are also a target for arsonists,a known fire hazard,have been known as a hiding place for persons evading capture by the Police.

Dr John Stolworthy D.Sc ● 3598d

Also a perfect size for giving thieves a leg up over your fence.I feel for anyone who lives in a terraced house unable to hide theirs.

Simon Wycombe ● 3598d

Whole streets blighted already.  Cleverly designed so that even with an average height front garden wall or hedge they still poke up behind and remain visible from streetside.

Philip Coe ● 3598d

SO they're here....HIDEOUS

Colin Goodman ● 3599d

Pamela,Don,t  under any circumstances leave the Wheelie bins under your bedroom window ,I informed Ealing Council many weeks ago re the fire hazards of this bins,regards John.

Dr John Stolworthy D.Sc ● 3599d

Just going through all the messages about this issue.  I didn't know about the fire hazard.  The only place we can put these wheelie bins is under our bedroom window.  Thank you very much this is more information I can use if Ealing Council reply to my complaint.  Passers by are always sitting on our wall smoking, leaving their rubbish so they will definitely not think twice about sticking fag ends and all sorts in to our bins.

Pamela Wylde ● 3599d

These carbuncles have now arrived and are a complete eyesore.  Our house has a very small back yard and no back alley so they have to go at the very small bit of front yard (not garden) that we have. With four in the household we managed perfectly well with a couple of boxes for recycling and one black bag plus food box oer week.  Exactly how are the collection people going to easily empty two weeks worth of all recycling in one bin - and I'm not sure it will all fit in anyway?  It is going to be a struggle getting them over cars in tightly parked streets.  These bins were just dumped on the street foday therefore doing exactly what we've been told mustn't happen on collection day? The council obviously paid no heed to petition that so many signed.  I know that passers by will also feel it is fine to use our bins, because they can't be hidden away nor locked (as far as I can see) to stick their own rubbish in and not bother which bin it goes in, and I am quite sure that will also include some people dumping their dog waste if it suits them.  We'll be the ones in trouble for sticking the wrong waste in the wrong bins of course!  Our road is not the prettiest but it looks far worse now and I am seething.  Thank you for the legal inforation I will certainly use that if and when the Council bother to answer my complaint.

Pamela Wylde ● 3599d

The expected client/service provider relationship seems to break down when dealing with local authorities

Philip Coe ● 3605d

Thanks. I did ask for re-assessment but, although I had pointed out that the original assessment was wildly wrong re-assessment was refused along with the taking of proper measurements.

John Gilbert ● 3605d

How come some areas eg Bedford Park and the Brentham Estate have been offered smaller bins (although admittedly after a lot of petitioning)?Surely wherever they are not suitable should be offered an alternative?You need to get your home re-assessed by the Council. Not all homes are considered suitable for wheelie bins.

Philippa Bond ● 3616d

The lenses used by Google for streetviews are ultra wide lenses and are so distorted they cannot be used for architectural of surveying purposes as they are neither or intended for such a purpose.The Google images are also electronically corrected and again do not  and cannot be used to obtain accurate dimensional information.The issue is that this has not been brought to a court of law and challenged.

Mark Kehoe ● 3617d

Hi John,so much for the letter I received stating my addresshad been assessed?Google is good but not for this type of survey and the outrageous reaction from Ealing Council is not surprising weare being taken for fools, roll on the local elections and we can have some change!!!!And maybe a reversal on the use of the dreaded Wheelie Bins which were not required in the first place!!!!

Dr John Stolworthy D.Sc ● 3617d

This morning I was telephoned by someone saying she was from Ealing Council....would I confirm I wanted Assisted Collection of wheelie bins and where, in the space in front of my house, could they be placed. I said I did indeed need the assistance but did not know where the bins could be placed because there wasn't enough room for them.I told her I had been notified that the space in front of my house had been assessed as suitable but that,when I queried that, I discovered that measurements had been taken by looking at Google and were very inaccurate. She said she was not concerned with that.I added that the problem would not have arisen had Ealing obeyed the law and absolved their duty to remove my  "domestic waste" by providing receptacles suitable in size and number for a two person household. She said again that she was not interested and gave me a choice, either I got rid of my rubbish myself or accepted the wheelie bins ( on the assisted collection basis); in other words, either I accepted an unlawful scheme simply because Ealing wants it even if it might not work or I have to carry my rubbish to the dump. Oh, by the way, I'm 73.

John Gilbert ● 3618d

Mark,as a ex senior fire safety officer I can concur with your comments,Wheelie Bins are a great fire hazard and should not be placed in front of doors,windows etc,or in the means of escape areas.Fire and Rescue Authorities throughout the U.K,have many reports of incidents regarding these bins.

Dr John Stolworthy D.Sc ● 3623d

Not that I support the introduction of wheelie bins but should they not be ventilated (with fine mesh grille to prevent insects and vermin getting in) so that build of gases can't take place?  Not only help reduce the fire risk but avoid the pong when you open them in the hot weather.

Philip Coe ● 3624d

I also stated that it's Horses for Courses with wheelie bins and that they are ideal in some environments.I very much doubt that in New Zealand that there are many Victorian and Edwardian houses with minimal space crammed into to small areas. They also have to hosed out every other collection. Something else you cannot do if you live in a terraced house or have not rear access.My Australian friends who have indeed had them for a long time also tell me there are strict rules about where they can be placed and it has to be well away from doors, windows and air conditioning units.  The great risk is when these bins are too close to doors and windows and block access. Not a problem if you live in a grass verged street with driveways and front lawns.But here, the bins are and  will be often, less than an arms stretch from the pavement and easy for anyone to drop a cigarette into.The accumulated vapour inside from some waste can make for a spectacular ignition. But can also smoulder for hours realeasing fumes from the melting plastic.If you are asleep in a room above the bin then the fumes could affect you long before a fire alarm is raised.If I could ( and I've tried many times) post images on this site. I think many would be quite disconcerted.

Mark Kehoe ● 3624d

I don't think I mentioned spontaneous combustion.  What I did mention is the fact that wheelie bins on fire are now one of the most common fires.The ease with which a fire can be ignited and the ease of access when bins are right by pavements is too tempting for those who do it either for a laugh or with malicious intent.After my car got damaged I started to make enquiries on liability and safety, It took more time than I really could afford on the matter but did find a lot of info via phone calls as well as a trawl on the internet.There is a lot of stuff on the internet and the main source was via Fire and Rescue services. Try for example Cheshire or Staffordshire Fire services. Bear in mind that a lot of these districts have had wheelie bins for a while so date and facts have been collated.It is others choosing to ignore the problems that is the issue.I presented some 30 pages of matter printed out and verified to a meeting with Hounslow Council. It was completely ignored.

Mark Kehoe ● 3624d

Mark - do you have any evidence (studies, news reports, etc) that wheelie bins are prone to spontaneously combust? I've done some searching, and I can't seem to find any references to that aside from deliberate arson.I only ask because I have family in New Zealand, which gets much much hotter weather than here, and they have had wheelie bins for two decades with zero ill effects.

Chris Gilson ● 3624d

To date, Both Hounslow and Ealing Council have either been unable or refuse to produce safety cases or insurance liability for wheelie bins.The HSE ( Health and Safety Executive) Publish full and clear specifications of the positioning of Wheelie bins in residential homes.This clearly indicates that they must be no closer than 2.5 metres from any door window or air vent. Must not obstruct access to doors or windows or gas and utility access.This was published because of the amount of fire and fumes from wheelie bins, which have become one of the most common types of fire in other parts of the UK.The H&S specs are for new builds and also specify adaptations to be incorporated to accommodate such vessels. but the prudent safety recommendations are that these should be applied wherever possible to existing stock.Fire and Rescue services across the UK have clear recommendations of the safety of Wheelie Bins, many of which are impossible to apply for homes with small frontages and narrow or no side or rear access. Gas meter and shut off points are also supped to be kept well clear at all times.The London Fire service does not carry the advice and it appears that they have been 'leaned' by local authorities and the GLA to not engage in the issue.Still the wall of silence and closing of ranks and contempt for the public.Shades of Hillsborough. Clearly not much has been learned about the perils of ignoring common sense.I wonder what will be explained should a fire occur and a fatality or injuries occur from either fumes or being trapped.?The longer combustable waste is contained in a wheelie bin the higher the risk of combustion. It takes less than 72 hours for baby and animal faeces to become methane and highly combustable and the bins act as huge propagators.Local Authorities will not covering the risk to you and your family. Nor are they even willing to admit this or produce evidence to the contrary.In due course, this will have induce a huge increase in home insurance premiums and Local Authorities will not covering the risk to you and your familyThe current glib answer from LBH is to hide behind local statistics which of course only record large bin fires as the date predates wheelie bins.My car was damaged by a flying wheelie bin on delivery day which just happened to be very windy.  In fact, the entire street had bins blowing over walls, across pavements and into parked vehicles. Official refused to suspend the deliveries in the adverse weather in spite of requests by operatives and could not cope with securing the bins at properties.Even with photographic evidence, so far, LBH refuse to accept any responsibility for their property.When empty the bins are unstable and as they are left all over the footways after emptying are a hazard which increases if the weather is windy. Most bins remain out of the pavements until residents return home. Which in most cases is late and after dark and for some a day or so later.If Ealing used the same safety criteria as they have to justify the safety case for cyclist safety at Longfield Avenue, then not a single wheelie bin would be permitted on any public footpath or beside a front door or window.Complete double standards.This also raises home security issues as it advertises very clearly whose home is unoccupied. The problem apart from the serious damage to local environs from items that destroy the local environs 24 / 7 is that these bins are designed for homes with driveways and reasonable space and rear access so they can be stored out of site until required.It seems to have completely escaped the decision makers that this is not the norm for the vast majority of homes in an urban area.Wheelie bins in some applications and areas are thus ideal, and for those with space make a practicable solution.But it's horses for courses and if anyone is in any doubt about what it's like when it's the wrong horse on the wrong horse, Pop down to Old Brentford on a wednesday morning and see for yourself.And at the end of the day, it makes no difference to recycling output. Waste will always be waste, whatever way it is packaged.

Mark Kehoe ● 3624d

The wheelie bins have been introduced so that bin collections can go to fortnightly and then 3 weekly. Watch this space.

Keith Iddon ● 3624d

Perhaps as the French do, unite & reject them, or any  changes implemented they disagree with.If everyone stuck together, theres not a lot the council could do & the rubbish mountain colossalSome households, the owners at least, need educating about leaving sacks out which get ravaged, possibly why the wheelie bins are being introduced.

Peter Yale ● 3624d

It does nor matter what the bye-laws provide; they have no validity if they do not conform to the law of the land and that law, I believe, is contained in Sections 45 and 46 of the Environmental Protection Act. Unless that Act has been repealed or altered then the provision of wheelie bins by Ealing in such type or quantity that is not reasonable for the household concerned is unlawful and, if unwanted, is a trespass.

John Gilbert ● 3624d

Of course you are right,The Council would state its in the bye laws,democracy did not come into the picture when all this was decided,our views count for nothing,however a my vote for the next Council will be the one who promises to get rid of these ghastly monstrosities called Wheelie Bins which are going to blight the Queen of the Suburbs.

Dr John Stolworthy D.Sc ● 3625d