Forum Topic

New charges at the dump for recycling our own rubbish will lead to mass dumping

Not only did our esteemed Councillor Mahfouz manage to mess up the contract for waste collection and recycling but he now intends to charge us for taking our own DIY and garden hard landscaping waste to the dump - credit and debit cards only note, and even the stuff that we take there for free will require draconian proof of identity before you can recycle. I foresee mass dumping all over Ealing. Any thoughts?See Ealing Today article posted today.

Alice E. Barter ● 3912d39 Comments

we already have mass dumping were we live so it will become even worse so much for our labour council look out if we get a labour mayor as well

Mr. Harold J Ward ● 3716d

I propose that residents should be allowed to make 4 recycling visits a year with whatever DIY waste they have to recycle. I have heard of one scheme that allows residents 12 monthly visits for the now chargeable items. I sort the whole car out before I go, dropping off electrical goods on the way in, with batteries and used engine oil at the same time. I then head up the ramp, dump my green waste, metal and wood before heading over to the main wall to dump non Recyclable materials! I then would throw any rocks or stones in the skip designated for that purpose. I don't go often but when I do I use all the facilities that are available and relevant to me. I pay, like you to help the council meet its recycling targets and objectives. If they put unfair barriers (charges) in place, it will deter me and others from recycling and result in hoarding of materials that could otherwise be recycled. They supposedly added the charge to encourage residents to sort through and recycle more rather than just dump materials. If there is one sure fire way to keep people away from the recycling centre and hence deter people from recycling, it is with a charge and the need for ID. Just a small voice but that's my opinion.

sean gibson ● 3717d

You are right about the Airedale Rd dumping spots. Though they are surprisingly effective as a way of getting rid of stuff. The polystyrene vegetable cool box and the bags and boxes of DIY stuff that were there at the base of a lime tree this morning when I walked past were gone at four the same afternoon - and without have to pay the council £40:).

Victor Piak ● 3837d

I agree entirely, just back fromthe Airedale Roas/South Ealing Road junction seems to be a favourite place. You can see all the local businesses scuttling out after dark some kind of human cockroaches after dark to leave their bags and boxes around the trees. Then there is the "South Ealing Rubbish Dart" where the local busisnesses empty their ash trays from the tables outside their establishments into a container and then "dart" out to deposit it in the nearest public bin, and then there is the South Ealing "Cardboard Catillion" where the businesses sneak out their cardboard boxes ripped up and packaged in black bags to look like domestic rubbish.....

Peter Burgess ● 3838d

it is on the increase in south Ealing already it's getting  bad in Places.

Harold John Ward ● 3842d

Pleased to note that a number of rubbish bins have been reintroduced in front of the parade of shops at the bottom of the Avenue.  New design with separate recycling compartment too. Also a narrower delivery slot, which I am told by a local shopkeeper, is to deter the deposit of bags of household waste as opposed to casual "litter". Hopefully true but suspect that the plastic bags will be dumped alongside.

Philip Coe ● 3851d

You could also offer it on here or on freecycle but I can't tell you how successful you will be.  However somebody recently spent some time and was successful of disposing of beach pebbles on here.

Philippa Bond ● 3891d

Sigh... yet another covert council tax increase, where what was already paid for within CT and was never 'free', has to be paid for again.The charges are absurd, £23/100Kg = £234/ton. A 1-ton midi Hippobag is £90, including the bag, and collection avoids queuing in Greenford Avenue for an hour. (I've given up and gone home on a Sunday, recently. When I went back, I asked why the congestion and a worker said Ruislip tip had been closed as a cost-saving measure...)What is the Council hoping to achieve? An uncompetitive non-service that deters use, or recycling of waste that benefits everyone?"Councillor Bassam Mahfouz, said:“People sometimes bring huge carloads of building waste to the reuse and recycling centres, most of which ends up in landfill.  Many councils already charge for residents’ building waste.  We hope that the charges will encourage people to sort through their DIY waste and recycle what they can to reduce the cost and make sure items don’t needlessly go to landfill.”...is complete gibberish. You *have* to sort waste to use Greenford at all. They (justifiably) require that so it can be deposited for recycling. Does, or does not Mahfouz want a recycling service to be used?Mahfouz just quadrupled the cost of digging out and re-laying my front garden path, which has taken 110 years to degrade to a dangerous mess. As a pensioner with building skills, I was going to DIY and dispose of the soil over a few months at 150kg/m. I now have two choices, fly-tip or forget about repairing the path. It'll be the latter, of course, unless I can find a way to dump it on the Town Hall steps.

Tony Sleep ● 3891d

I asked Bassam Mahfouz about the removal of bins near Greenford Station earlier this year for a blog post and was told “As part of some recent ‘demand management’ testing, we trialled the removal of bins in certain locations. The trial has shown a 32% reduction in waste going to landfill via street cleansing, so a very positive outcome.” (Seventh paragraph on this link: https://positivegreenford.wordpress.com/2015/04/29/one-can-too-many/). The council may also introduce solar powered bins that crush the contents when full to make space for more.

Albertina McNeill ● 3891d

Could not say but almost certainly used by some of the occupants of the flats over the shops

Philip Coe ● 3893d

Was it because they were being used for commercial waste by traders who should have commercial waste contracts?

Philippa Bond ● 3893d

Yes indeed Jools.  I note that the rubbish bins outside of the parade of shops at the bottom of the Avenue in West Ealing have been removed and now there are piles of rubbish scattered around every morning.I did ask one of the shopkeepers if they were aware of the reason and her understanding was that the bins were heavily used and required excessively frequent emptying to control.So to save money fewer bins in quiet locations where they will not be used.  I think this logic could be used across other services.  How about close the schools and build a new one for the kids of this Borough but have it in, say, the Midlands.  I think it could be quite small and lightly staffed to cope with demand

Philip Coe ● 3893d

If you don't want to use the garden waste service (many don't have space or just a few times a year garden trim) it would seem a good idea for residents to join together to share a gardener who will take the cuttings away (and is licensed to do so).

Philippa Bond ● 3893d

That includes garden and grass cuttings,ever since lbe introduced the pay system for garden recycle,the queue to enter grenford site has been somewhat long,espically at weekends.So to help lbe added another garden recycle skip container at Greenford.Anyway the free dump service has been abused by traders from ealing and well outside ealing for many years,seen it with my own old eyes.I have always found the staff there very helpful but I fear they will have to put up with troublesome people in the future and the queue for the weighbridge which will require 2 visits could bring chaos there.JJames.

Jim James ● 3896d

Just to let you all know, in some streets, the Council has removed the waste bins as a cost saving measure.  Now people put their rubbish in a pile where the bins used to be. It is just like an Ealing comedy - but I am not laughing

Jools Lewis ● 3897d

I have seen a mixed metal recycling skip outside London.  Maybe there was no scrap merchant nearby but it seemed like a good way to collect some of the metal bits an pieces that would otherwise end up in the general waste.  Unless there is a change making it easier and less costly for small contractors to dispose of waste materials I think householders will continue to find it left for them to dispose of.

Philippa Bond ● 3902d

If you visit the Greenford Recycling Centre you will find a very large "roll on"skip for this very purpose and the staff are alredy well versed in policing and directing the use of this skip. There is also, unless I am mistaken, another skip for plasterboard which is already recycled. Other aspects of building waste such as wood and metal have defined areas.

Alice E. Barter ● 3903d

Alice E.Barter pointed out"One of the points that I am trying to make is that DIY building and garden "rubble" is eminently re-usable once it has been through a crusher and graded whereas as lot of the "free" general waste is not easily seperable for re-cycling."While that may be true it requiresa) an employee who is capable of judging whetherwhat's being presented as "DIY building and garden "rubble" really is what its supposed to be,"DIY building and garden "rubble" and is not mixed in with general rubbish old paint tins etc, or harmful stuff such as asbestos etc etc. Then he or she needs to be trained in what proceduresthey needs to adopt if is isn't all DIY building and garden "rubble" after all. And then others will need to be trained as to what to do, if they're off sick or on holiday.Which all costs money.Assuming it is what its supposed to be, then it will go into the appropriate skip, which will have to be hired, which might sit for maybe a week until its full enough. When a lorry  will then have to be booked to transport it all to a plant with a crusher and grader.Which again, all costs money.Crushers and graders are presumably expensive bitsof kit, and so the operators of such sites willwant to pay the bare minimum for single skipswhich may turn up on the off-chance every weekor so, when they may have queues of tippers all waiting to unload and dump their spoils down a chute.Basically you need them, a lot more than theyneed you, and the price they offer you will reflectthat fact. The fact that stuff is eminently re-usable or recyclable doesn't necessarily mean its economic to do so on an industrial scale unfortunately. In your own case, small numbers of bricks are eminently re-usable by the person with the bricks yourself, for any number of purposes around the garden. Under pots, making borders etc etc Or if stacked neatly in a corner they are hardly unsightly in any case.But not necessarily to anyone else. Maybe if you advertised them you might get takers for people who wanted them for their own gardens, if free, or there again maybe not Otherwise unless they can be supplied by the lorry load, you're probably out of luck.That's simple economics I'm afraid.  michael adams...

Michael Adams ● 3903d

One of the points that I am trying to make is that DIY building and garden "rubble" is eminently re-usable once it has been through a crusher and graded whereas as lot of the "free" general waste is not easily seperable for re-cycling.Another is that as Ealing's contractor is falling down on so much how can it have the affront to try and charge for rubble?

Alice E. Barter ● 3903d

Alice E. Barter explained" the stuff that B.M. is so keen to charge for is mainly rubble soil bricks concrete stones pebbles sand plaster, etc. "But why should council tax payers who don't ever have any rubble, soil, bricks concrete stones pebbles, sand and plaster to dispose of, subsidise those who do ?Its the same argument as with garden waste. Why should flat dwellers who don't enjoy the benefitof a garden subsidise those who do when getting rid of their garden waste ?After all you don't hear of many flat dwellers complaining about garden waste charges, do you ? Education for instance is rather different.While people without children pay Council Taxthe majority of the education budget, is sourced straight from central government, based on headcount etc, And so they're not subsidising parents with children As to the economics of it. More than enough hardcore is already produced whenever a buildings are demolished -it's produced direct by bulldozers, and JCB's dumping it straight into tipper lorries. Material taken into recycling centres in the backs of vans or cars simply can't compete - it simply isn't economic. So will cost the Council money to dispose of.Most recycling in the UK is totally uneconomic, but its necessary for Councils to go through the motions so as to meet targets agreed to in EU treaties over which Councils have no controlwhatsoever. For instance it never made sense to have teams of men sorting out rubbish and putting it into separate bins at the roadside. Just as it  never really made sense to have residents sorting it themselves either. However it gave them a sense of participation. But it turned outtoo many didn't have a clue as to what they were doing. As unlike many Europens countries recyclingisn't really part of the culture. Far better to tip it all on a belt at a central depot and have it picked over by low paid workers in scenes reminiscent of 3rd world rubbish dumps.But such facilities cost money. Anyone travelllingom what used to be the North London Line on the  way into Willesden will have seen the big Powerday recycling plant on their left. At one time the place was bustling. Lately it seems to be deserted most of the time.Economics presumably.  As to fly tipping. Well if there are enough anti-social parasites around, coupled with Council tax payers who resent paying any more Council Tax as a result of the activities of two houses Bell and his cronies or any other reason then Ealing itself will simply become a tip.It really is as simple as that.michael adams...

Michael Adams ● 3903d

the stuff that B.M. is so keen to charge for is mainly rubble soil bricks concrete stones pebbles sand plaster, etc. and can be graded and reused as hardcore to fill holes. It is probably the one thing that can be put in landfill that is completely inert and just fills a hole without producing any methane or other toxins. What I wonder about is whether the it will cost more to administer, implement, and operate the charging system than the savings in landfill costs. As our Ealing contractor is underperforming and failing to meet targets in so many areas could the contractor not be persuaded to continue providing this service free at point of use as this is at least somewhere where underperformance is not happening?

Alice E. Barter ● 3904d

Just because you take something to the Reuse & Recycling Centre doesn't mean that it can be reused and recycled! The opportunities for some things are greater than others and landfill costs are high.If you have stuff that can be reused try using this website or freecycle or another website instead.

Philippa Bond ● 3904d

Yes,the unfortunate Council Tax paying resident(us) will have to pay more - increasing the likelihood of more fly-dumping in our Borough. No win.

Gerry Tan ● 3904d

But at least more money can be extracted from us.Wasn't that the whole idea?

Debbie Edwards ● 3904d

Perhaps Northolt residents are less affected by these changes?

Christopher Bell ● 3904d

I quite agree, Greenford Recycling Depot is just not good enough, it is far too small for the amount of residents it has to serve and now they are charging for taking a bit of plaster or brickwork. And the cost is pretty high, it would probably be cheaper to hire a skip or one of those jumbo bags from Wickes. The charging of garden waste collection has caused much more traffic at the depot, the whole system is going downhill.

Roy Baker ● 3904d

Michael!What a fantastic answer. Thank you. Truly you are thinking: "outside the box" with your comment.

Alice E. Barter ● 3905d

Alice E. Barter askedDoes anyone know the official date when the Greenford waste processing facility will start charging for DIY garden waste ....From the Council WebsiteFrom Friday 14 August 2015 anyone disposing of mixed loads of construction, demolition or DIY waste will have to enter the site via the weighbridge and will be charged at £23 per 100kg.  http://www.ealing.gov.uk/info/200970/recycling_services/292/re-use_and_recycling_centres_and_sites/3 ...A small boot load of bricks, broken flower potsetc should probably come in at around 10kg maxand so cost around £2.30. That's assuming it registers on the weighbridge - checked on the way out presumably, at all. Having a passengerabsent-mindedly walk past the weighbridge on the way in, might cause further confusion - not that I'd ever suggest such a thing of course.michael adams...

Michael Adams ● 3905d

Does anyone know the official date when the Greenford waste processing facility will start charging for DIY garden waste as I would like to tidy up my garden? I don't think that I have got more that a small boot load of old bricks, bits of conrete, broken flower pots, etc. However, I would prefer not to pay for the privilige of disposing of it all.

Alice E. Barter ● 3905d

And meanwhile back in the real world.....

Debbie Edwards ● 3910d

Try using www.fixmystreet.com  I found it easier to use and you can check back and see easily when you reported it or anyone else has commented.Of course if the Council has decided that that is not their land and is private (and it isn't) you will have to try contacting your Councillors.Good Luck!

Philippa Bond ● 3911d

What is even more outrageous is that when trying to report a flytip online yesterday, at location somehow very popular with idiots dumping stuff on a pavement close to our house, I was unable to do it because the Ealing Council mapping tool now thinks that this particular section of public highway has now been designated private land for some dubious reason, therefore it is not their responsibility any more. An error ? A coincidence ? Or a way to stop residents requesting flytip cleanups ?I thought I'd never say this but Ealing has now officially become a dump, for myriad of reasons. It's time to move.

Tom Carroll ● 3911d

Alice, I agree with your comments.Instead of the council encouraging residents to recycle they now want to put obstacles in the way and make more money for their coffers at the same time.This will surely mean that our streets will be littered with DIY rubbish as if things were not bad enough already!Added to this they are going to force us to have these awful wheelie bins littering our front gardens, We don't want them, we don't need them, we don't have room for them, but our voices are not listened to.It is hard enough to persuade some residents to recycle furniture and so on, in some areas even where no charge is levied there is still a problem when people are too lazy to contact their council to collect unwanted items.Do we want our borough to resemble a dumping ground?What can we do about it???

Jean F Fernandez ● 3911d

This is of course, yet another edict fronted by the same councillor who is ultimately responsible for the ham fisted refuse contract. The hike in parking costs. Imposing Wheely bins with no justifiable benefit other than damaging local environs for days on end.The unconstitutional changes to the CPZs which were only expanded with the full co-operation of residents associations in the specifics of such schemes.( Under a Listening Labour administration ..remember that?)The isolation of a great many older residents by forcing online only access.And reams of wholly misleading statements justifying undemocratic decisions.And the borough is adorned with banners proclaiming no Council Tax increase for 7 years.That in itself is one for the ASA.  Completely misleading.  Now many are unfairly subsidising many at huge expense and in many cases quite unfairly.A CV of achievement that most would be completely embarrassed to even put to paper... er sorry online.But where is the common sense and opposition to these impositions? What is the matter with the rest of the Council?  Why are these decisions not being called to scrutiny? And why the less than honest spin being issued to justify such actions?If this is how cabinet council is to be run then it needs to be ditched.

Mark Kehoe ● 3911d

We have had too many stupid changes recently, but who is responsible? Can we vote the problems away?

Christopher Bell ● 3911d

if the detail of proof of identity doesn't change this will lead to confusion and delays at the tip. Asking people to produce driving licenses and a utility bill / bank statement is poorly thought out given that many people transact online for utilities and banking so won't have either of these.Photo driving licenses should always have the current drivers address on so asking for something over and above this is duplicative.

Ed Yelland ● 3912d

Alice E. Barter suggestedCouncillor Mahfouz [...]now intends to charge us for taking our own DIY and garden hard landscaping waste to the dump ...However, according to the account on the "EalingToday" front page -"Items such as paint, carpets and underlay, wood and appliances like washing machines, fridges and freezers, will continue to be free of charge for residents"So that if paint, wood and appliances are still free it needs to be asked what exactly is the nature of this "DIY" waste ? Similary with this"DIY" hard landscaping waste. So is the suggestion that residents are engaged in DIY demolition -taking out walls and brickwork, and doing their own plumbing, and hard landscaping - constructing their own rockeries, patios, paths etc. ?Or if not, where does the "DIY" element come into this ?  michael adams...

Michael Adams ● 3912d

Sadly I agree, flytipping will become more common. Already on a small scale by public bins, more & more household (by which I mean furniture) is dumped.There is a service offered by the council where they take 5 or so items for a small charge.Rubbish needs to be removed so either council tax will increase or a charge levied

Peter Yale ● 3912d

The nearest council recycling and re-use facility to my house is in Brent (Park Royal). Do the various councils still operate together?

Christopher Bell ● 3912d