Forum Topic

Walpole Park walled rose garden vs. another cafe

The Pitzhanger Manor redevelopment/demolition plans to remove the remaining part of the rose garden in the Walpole Park walled garden and replace it with a café/event building. I can't believe this is what the majority of residents/park users want? Do they?

Philip Alford ● 4157d51 Comments

Rose planting - March, Walpole ParkTo make way for the start of the Pitzhanger Manor restoration project later this year, roses are being moved to the Ealing, Hammersmith and West London College garden and Lammas Park.  This work will begin in March to ensure that the roses are moved at the right time of year with the best chance of surviving the move. Volunteers and Capel Manor horticulture students will be helping with this project.  If you would like to get involved please contact Emma Allen, Walpole Park Manager, on 020 8825 7444 or allene@ealing.gov.uk.

Philip Alford ● 4059d

I'm noticing some care and attention being given to the roses in the walled garden - could these mean a reprieve for the roses or a change of mind?

Philip Alford ● 4071d

hithis still works just now - it loads a big pdf filehttp://www.ealing.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/6845/pitzhanger_manor_consultation_document

Philip Alford ● 4086d

Can anyone give me the link to the proposals?The link mentioned back in November no longer works.

Terry Freestone ● 4086d

It's very sad, in 1990 when the maintenance of the park was privatised, it had a rose garden, a lake with ducks breeding on the islands, a water garden with a stream running through it, a animal centre, nine tennis courts,a cafe, a theatre for occasional use, beutiful lawned areas with summer and spring bedding. All it needed was to be lovingly looked after.

Roy Baker ● 4087d

...do you think we could grab a few favourite rose bushes before they are destroyed?

Philip Alford ● 4089d

Thanks Philip.  For years people have been dumping their Christmas trees near the Lammas Park entrance of Walpole Park. I had assumed that they did so illegally - its good to see the Council say its quite legal - I should have known this. Thanks again for the details.

Gerry Tan ● 4106d

I think for many years most of the parks in Ealing have designated areas for leaving Christmas trees ready for collection and recycling by the Council.  More details herehttp://www.ealing.gov.uk/info/200970/recycling_services/1652/recycling_your_real_christmas_tree

Philip Coe ● 4106d

Going slightly off topic - we noticed while walking through Walpole Park today that people are beginning to dump used Christmas trees at one of the gates to the park. Is this dumping illegal?

Gerry Tan ● 4106d

..it always seems odd that money can be found for 'big ticket' vanity projects which aren't really needed - like the 'Thames garden bridge' - whilst the small quiet existing corners get trampled on or neglected to the point of ruin.

Philip Alford ● 4120d

Much as we love Walpole Park, we've never liked Pitshanger Manor - it's a mess of a building and doesn't merit being "restored" to its original look. The Manor has been messed around by too many people over too years and shouldn't have more money spent in refurbishing - its simply not worth the effort imo.

Gerry Tan ● 4124d

....it seems Soane only lived at the Manor for 6 years and a lot of what he built no longer exists...so much of this project seems to be just chasing an ideal for Architects by Architects.I'm really not sure this is a case of re-'build it and they will come'.

Philip Alford ● 4124d

maybe the roses could be moved to create a new rose garden so we don't lose the flowers, colours, and scent?perhaps create something in Walpole park next to the 'Diana tree' (english rose!!!?) they moved as part of the park project and close to the playground

Philip Alford ● 4133d

........not sure I understand why the 'ealingtoday' newsletter email mentions 'nigel' but not this thread?

Philip Alford ● 4136d

Extremely unlikely. Where did they get from?

Penny Crocker ● 4139d

have you seen the supporting message in the walled garden?

Philip Alford ● 4139d

The figures for the financial assessment and impact of the project I believe were based on the Manor/Gallery getting 70k people visiting per year (= 191 per day). How likely is this?

Philip Alford ● 4141d

I am old enough to remember when "Pitshanger Manor" was the central library and Walpole Park was a lovely park that attracted plenty of local residents and visitors from all over the borough. Why oh why do they keep wasting money changing it and using the pathetic excuse of returning it to it's original condition. I expect every time a new univerity graduate arrives they want to make their name. What about spending some of these precious resources on Brent Lodge Animal Centre or Warren Farm.

Roy Baker ● 4143d

As the Library in the centre is now no longer a part of the original deal for EBC and is costing a fortune, maybe it should relocate back to Pitzhanger Manor.As the book stock is now lower than when the library was previously in the parkthe place could be better utilised.Would save £££££s and be a much better location for library users.

Anthony Waller ● 4143d

....I am not sure I accept or understand that the consequence of a restoration is to build an additional new external amenity space/café (near so many others), and to remove the rose garden.I was told the new venue would be 3rd party run and I cannot see how it would offset the costs of the endeavour - even the £4m input from Ealing.

Philip Alford ● 4147d

We could keep the Rose garden AND save £4 million pounds from the cuts by not building the events venue and cafe.

Neil F. Weber ● 4148d

for information: NOTE - not HLF funding!!!"Separately, Ealing Council has agreed to put £4.1 million towards the £10.5 million project to restore and redevelop Pitzhanger Manor.The council's extra funding will mainly be used to build a new restaurant and event venue, which will be within the walled garden, detached from the house"(from GETWESTLONDON)

Philip Alford ● 4148d

For information:TOTAL project cost: £10,52M.HLF funding: £4.42M & £275,000 development grant (awarded April 2012); Ealing Council funding: £4.14M Key dates: January 2015: Pitzhanger to close to public; Pitzhanger to re-open in 2018.

Philip Alford ● 4148d

That is an excellent idea, I hadn't thought of that, an eatery WITHIN the Manor. The basement is pretty empty.

Neil F. Weber ● 4148d

I think if enough people comment now the council/project will start to listen - so complaining now is good to highlight an issue and start to SAVE THE ROSE GARDEN and STOP THE NEW BUILD IN THE WALLED GARDEN! So please tell someone (this forum, your ward, council, project) what you think!I understand what you say re lottery, but if the consultation was 'better' then this would have been addressed properly.The Manor/gallery already has small events and weddings within the existing footprint so with some thought this could continue within the new design plans and include basic catering. The Nat Trust do very well with integrated eateries in their properties, so with a bit of thought why not within the Manor?

Philip Alford ● 4148d

While thinking about the rose garden further I had a sudden recollection from my childhood of being told to be quiet and behave myself (and for my friends to behave themselves) by my mother when we went through the Rest Garden (or Garden of Rest) that is now referred to as the Walled Rose Garden owing to the practice of people scattering the ashes of their loved ones among the roses. Do the vegetable growers know this, and what are the implications for the Events Reception and Cafe?

Neil F. Weber ● 4148d

Rather than just dashing off a letter to loads of bigwigs about saving the Walled Rose Garden that may cause who knows what, or indeed nothing we need an alternative propoal as to what to do with the Events Reception and the proposed cafe. Objecting to the destruction of the rose garden would probably mean contacting the Lottery Fund people which will not be popular with either the local politicians or the corporate parts of the Council organisation. Part of the reasoning behind the Events Reception etc., was to allow the use of the Manor House as a wedding reception and other function venue so it probably has to go somewhere or else the project won't meet what was sold to the Lottery Fund people. So where should the Events Reception, and the Cafe go? My immediate thoughts are 1) Behind the Manor House built onto the back of the gallery where there is sontemporary building already, 2) In front of the Walled Rose Garden on Ealing Green (which would allow the cafe to function after dark), and 3) to the North of the Walled Rose Garden outside it, but inside the Walpole Park perimeter wall. What do you think?There are people who would like to see what is left of the Walled Rose Garden stay and I am one of them, however, it is not going to be easy to enact owing to the lottery funding package.

Neil F. Weber ● 4148d

The "interesting edible plants" have replaced about half of the roses that were in the rose garden. As I pointed out before someone in the Council's emply has got it in for stnadard roses in Ealing.

Neil F. Weber ● 4149d

I love that walled garden and think it is the best part of Walpole Park.  Don't wisterias have to grow for 10 years until they flower?  I love that mix of colours on that wisteria walkway.  There were some interesting edible plants being grown in some of the beds last time I visited.

Philippa Bond ● 4149d

....not sure where the word 'refurbishment' came from ! It is a demolition/removal the of remaining rose garden area and it is being replaced with a new build of a café/event centre instead.

Philip Alford ● 4149d

Gerry, if you look at the plams I don't think there will be any roses left there after the "refurbishment". There is also a very fine ancient Gingko tree there.

Neil F. Weber ● 4149d

Yes Philip, its a delightful little quiet wisteria covered walk through that part of the rose garden. Is this part of the rose garden that is going to be demolished or refurbished? I haven't been keeping up with this subject.

Gerry Tan ● 4149d

Yes the rose garden provides variety. I also fear for the lovely and established wisterias that provide such a nice scent as you walk through.

Philip Alford ● 4149d

You can be as motivated as you like, but you won't get the b*ggers to pay any attention to you.Signed. G. Fawkes

Tony Colliver ● 4151d

Penny, I know that you are right about this. It is fairly easy to put someone through a one-day course in using a hedgecutter or strimmer, or even a chainsaw, and then pay them the minimum wage for hacking everything back to 30cm or 50cm, or whatever cm high without discrimination. It is another matter to prune, care-for, feed, and even dead-head roses for which you really need an NVQ or an RHS qaulification and which comes in at three times what you can pay a petrol hedgecutter operator. It is a reflection of the economic times, the way in which so-called "horticultural services" are outsourced, as well as the fashion for "prairie planting" based on grasses.

Neil F. Weber ● 4155d

Totally agree - how far do you need to travel to see such a great display of roses with lovely colours and scents?Maybe at least Ealing could move the roses into another part of the park and create a similar space for those who enjoy such things - maybe next to the 'Diana' tree they moved?'baby out with the bath water'

Philip Alford ● 4156d

So are you sufficiently motivated to make your feelings known beyond this forum?But how? Really not sure, you tell me..Ward councillors?Ealing Newspapers?Twitter?Leader of Ealing Council and Pitzhanger Manor trustee, Councillor Julian Bell?Posters?*** I really think the Council has got it wrong ***

Philip Alford ● 4157d

Easier to maintain I guess. Sad though. Grasses and hedging are very pedestrian compared to roses.

Penny Crocker ● 4157d

It is interesting how someone or some people in the landscape architecture part of Ealing Council seem to gnerally have it in for standard roses across Ealing which have gradually disappeared from the little garden next to the Grnage Pub on the corner of Ealing Common, South Ealing Road Park (Maytree Rest Gardens), Bramley Road Open Space, etc., and noe the very Rose Garden in Walpole Park. Once Roses were considered a great status symbol and underlined the plantings that were part of Ealing's "Queen of the Suburbs" image. No more. It is all grasses and hedging.

Neil F. Weber ● 4157d

...I believe the cottage garden half of the walled garden(which also used to be all roses and is the top half of your picture) has been 'done' as this was part of the 'Park project'My understanding, with all the remodelling and building of the 'bottom' half of the walled garden, is that all the remaining rose garden will go.

Philip Alford ● 4157d

Without a proper picture, I find it difficult to visualise how much of the Walled Garden will be lost,

Phil Kay ● 4157d

...and there's the nub of it...I do not accept the 'consequence' is removal of the rose garden or building a new café/event centre.I am neutral about the Manor refurbishment/demolitions themselves going ahead, but if the Manor and Gallery are not a sufficient draw in themselves, then the project really is questionable.The answer is not a 'high end' café/event centre run by a third party to make the public come (Ealing has loads already).

Philip Alford ● 4157d

...and so the rose garden area in the walled garden will be removed and a new café/event centre built in its place.It's 'simply' a question whether you want/need an additional café/event centre built at all, whether you want it built in place of the rose garden/walled garden, and whether you value the unique tranquillity and sensual delight of a rose garden over another café.

Philip Alford ● 4157d

The intent of the restoration is to take the building back to its historic core - i.e. to address the 'jumbled mess' that it has become.The consequence of which is that there is need for additional external events/amenity space in order to make the project viable and the endeavour sustainable.  Personally I see no problem with this.

Chris Millward ● 4157d

I forgot to say, there are more than enough cafes in and very near Walpole Park - we don't need more in the rose garden area imo. Anywat, the new Spencer's Cafe is only a few meters away.

Gerry Tan ● 4157d

Philip, we find the remaining part of the old rose garden is a peaceful and quiet part away from the main park areas. In our opinion, Pitzhanger Manor has been altered and added-to so often in the past that its a jumbled mess now and not worth renovating and refurbishing again - that's what I feel anyway.

Gerry Tan ● 4157d

Seeing as Ealing Council is looking to get rid of the old Town Hall as it has surplus space I do not see how an additional "venue" for the Events people is required. Let alone YACC (Yet Another Cafe Cafe).

Neil F. Weber ● 4157d

Philip - I'm unsure what text you are referring to - is it this PDF document?http://www.ealing.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/6845/pitzhanger_manor_consultation_documentThis extract is the only bit I can see that directly references the Walled Garden:"A new pavilion in the walled garden will provide a café and events venue with minimal impact on the historic setting of the manor house...The walled garden will be remodelled to create a sunny terrace for the café alongside areas for growing vegetables. External lighting, boundary walls and fences, and paths will be upgraded throughout. Trees, seating and signage will be added, and ground levels will be adjusted to improve access."When I first read this, I simply took it to mean that visitors wanting to use a cafe in the Manor House would use this one in the Walled Garden rather than going to Spencers.

Phil Kay ● 4157d

It's in the plans/publicity - but buried in the text.For me the consultation was not well run and side stepped complaints.http://www.ealing.gov.uk/info/200893/pm_gallery_and_house/1688/restoration_project/4

Philip Alford ● 4157d

No! Not another cafe! Or another non-core "Events"-related activity. If  anything, more, and proper roses of the kind from a hundred years ago, or if they have to build something restoring the animal centre!

Neil F. Weber ● 4157d

Absolutely Not.Completely flies in the face of  'restoring' the park.Where has this come from? Not heard a thing about this before?

Anthony Waller ● 4157d