Forum Topic

wheely bins vs black rubbish bags

Wandering about the streets of Ealing on refuse collection day one can't help but notice the mess left behind. Refuse bags of all sorts scattered in the middle of the road begs the question - Isn't there a better solution?The introduction of wheely bins would solve many of the problems related to waste disposal:1. It is safer for the workers who have to deal with rubbish of all sorts (it is simply hauled unto a special mechanism at the back of the truck)2. None of the rubbish ends up scattered on the street.3. It would look tydier than the bags infront of people's abode.The council says that only a vote from Ealing residents would change things. What do you think?

Gatt Aldo ● 8833d68 Comments

Yes, I believe that underground bins is what they have progressed onto in Sydney where they have terraced housing as we have and very little space. (They previously had wheelie bin wars.)

Philippa Bond ● 3882d

I was in one of the older quarters of Seville last year where many residents had little or no outside space.  I was slightly perplexed that they seemingly deposited their rubbish, endlessly, in smallish bins strategically placed around some squares. Why no overflow?  Got the answer a few days later when watching the bin lorry came around, raised a  subterranean  hydraulic platform and revealed that the small surface level bins were simply hoppers into industrial size paladin bin size that the bin lorries quickly emptied and lowered, on the hydraulic lift, back below ground.An elegant solution. No doubt expensive to instal but surely less labour intensive on a weekly basis. And yes (Philippa) they had different bins for recycling.Apologies that a did not take a photograph that might have made it all a bit clearer.

Philip Coe ● 3882d

This is what Oxford has with dimensions:http://www.oxford.gov.uk/PageRender/decER/Additional_Recycling_Containers_occw.htmThey get left out on the street after collection and have other litter added to them.  You often see them overflowing - very little flattening of boxes or squashing of bottles.I don't think there is enough about volume in the National Curriculum! There are other wheelie bins on the market which are shorter and squatter.  But then there are also ordinary sized bins which many of us are already using and have been for years.

Philippa Bond ● 3883d

Oxford also has the most enormous wheelie bins...  and they still have litter.  I can't understand why people can't learn to flatten their cereal boxes.  You make a little effort and you start to do it and then you do automatically without even having to think about it.

Philippa Bond ● 3883d

I see on the council's website Q & A section on wheely bins that a smaller size wheely bin is available but I have not yet been able to find anyone in the refuse section who can provide me with its dimensions so that we can see if it and its 'companions' can be fitted into our modest front garden. I will contact Cllr John Delaney to see if he can help. I have seen smaller wheely bins in Oxford and Leicester and they appear to be slightly more than half the size of the standard wheely bins.

Mike Tiley ● 3883d

Providing ordinary sized dustbins would have worked!  A shame they never thought of that.  It works for those of us who have bought them.  In Chiswick the operatives walk along the street taking the black sacks out of the wheelie bins and throwing them into the back of the lorry.  On a red route near Hanger Lane you see them walk along the street with a wheelie bin filling it as they walk along.I think the problem with wheelie bins is that they tend to be the same height and just vary in girth.  You could hold a party in some of them.

Philippa Bond ● 3883d

Would the most beneficial solution be to have smaller wheelie bins which can be hidden behind most garden walls and be emptied once a week.  Large wheelies emptied once a fortnight is not popular but boxes and bags are not the best either.  When we were all given the options a few years ago by the council, do I remember a smaller wheelie among the options?There is no getting away from it though, this is a cost cutting exercise no matter how it is marketed.......

Marie McLernon ● 3883d

Walking through Oxford the other day littered by enormous wheelie bins.  It was interesting to see how the recycling bins actually attracted a lot of unrecyclable rubbish.I think we should fine people who do not follow the Council's rules and do not take responsibility for their waste putting it out too early and unprotected.  At present it is just ignored by far too many people who just step over it...  There are not enough YUKS!!

Philippa Bond ● 3886d

Walking through Oxford the other day littered by enormous wheelie bins.  It was interesting to see how the recycling bins actually attracted a lot of unrecyclable litter.I think we should fine people who do not follow the Council's rules and do not take responsibility for their waste putting it out too early and unprotected.  At present it is just ignored by far too many people who just step over it...  There are not enough YUKS!!

Philippa Bond ● 3886d

Recycling IS COMPULSORY in many London boroughs. Residents who consistently don't recycle certain recyclables are warned several times and then fined if they don't start to change their habits. I wondered why it wasn't made compulsory everywhere and then I realised that the way forward is being blocked by party politics.One black sack protected by an ordinary sized bin would suffice for most families if they are recycling.  Unfortunately the Council removed this information giving their residents the security of protection and collection of their waste from ordinary sized bins from their website presumably in readiness for wheelie bins... So the idea is that bins will be colonising our gardens and streets and crashed around our pavements whether or not they are full and need emptying.

Philippa Bond ● 3886d

Agree. Nappies lying around on the street - yuk.As a thought would it be an idea to impose wheelie bins first on those who put black bin liners out, and those who want wheelie bins (eg me)?  Then those who have the space.Then see how it goes.

Barbara Karayi ● 3886d

But can you imagine the uproar if recycling was made compulsory?

Barbara Karayi ● 3886d

So you've been taking responsibility for your waste - it is a shame that the Council has not been more proactive in helping more people to take responsibility for theirs instead of just clearing up after them and picking up the bill.

Philippa Bond ● 3893d

I haven't had a torn black bin bag in years .... a simple solution of bleach and water mixed with a little dish soap for adhesive purposes ... in a spray bottle and the foxes, magpies, crows etc never touch them.

Charles Campbell ● 3898d

Philippa Bond pointed out:"With nose-to-tail parking how do you think the operatives will get the bins to the lorry?"...Nail, head, hammer.What's the betting that within a few months the collections will revert to three weekly, or evenmonthly collections, as a result of "unforseenand unavoidable technical difficulties".michael adams...

Michael Adams ● 3899d

Nice little film here:http://www.recyclenow.com/facts-figures/how-it-recycled/food-waste

Philippa Bond ● 3899d

You also want to go for a walk in an area with small gardens where there ARE wheelie bins.They are huge and overbearing and can make the streets threatening and smelly - nose-high smelly.  Nobody wants to chat over those - so the streets become deserted and more dangerous.  You will also often find that there is still litter everywhere.With nose-to-tail parking how do you think the operatives will get the bins to the lorry?You don't need a wheelie bin to look after your rubbish.  You can look after it by just using an ordinary bin.  If you notice what was/is in the black sacks that you find torn open and spread across the street you can be sure that there will be food.  If you use the food waste bin supplied by the Council to most properties and separate your food waste then not only do you avoid this happening but at the same time you can see what you are wasting and can tweak your buying/cooking habits to save money and make less waste but you will be sending it off to make fertiliser and electricity.It only takes one person/one family to be irresponsible with their waste and recycling and everybody else in the street suffers. The sad thing is we all tend to know who they are.  They will probably also be the one person/one family that leaves their wheelie bins in the road to blow around scratching cars or blocking pedestrians on pavements.  You are not addressing the problem - the lack of responsibility - you are just shifting the problem along.

Philippa Bond ● 3899d

Just taken dog for his walk & the litter strew around the streets is awful.While wheely bins may be unsightly, they at least prevent Mr Fox tearing the black sacks open,I am cpncerned as well at the collection period if it were to be fortnightly & the rubbish accumulatedAs a lady pointed out the bags should be left on collection morning on ones own property, however this does not happen hence the need for wheely bins

Peter Yale ● 3899d

Yes PAUL, I'm still hiding in the trench!  :-o

Gerry Tan ● 7729d

Where's that Gerry?He's got his head down again!

Paul Allen ● 7729d

PieroI wouldn’t start a war, but I do like a bit of a skirmish    ;o)

Paul Allen ● 7729d

I totally agree. Having said that, you are far more likely to step in dog and cat poo around here, which is no more pleasant just because it might be less disease-ridden. Personally I wish they wouldn't use my garden as a loo - however that's just their nature and some of their owners' nimby-ness, and I wouldn't start a war over that any more than I would about wheelie bins!

Piero Vitelli ● 7729d

Gosh, who would have thought that an innocent question of rubbish collection would generate such strong feelings! I suppose it IS a serious question...I'm heading for the trenches! :-(

Gerry Tan ● 7729d

Doris:  It's a pity that the black sacks which you love so much do so much to encourage them then isn't it.

Jane Salisbury ● 7729d

Doris:  Unfortunately we live in the real world where we get our rubbish collected the only way we can without having to chase the dustmen up the road in our dressing gowns or spend hours on the phone begging for them to be sent round again.Also none of this addresses the issue of where my daughter is supposed to put her rubbish for collection. (She has no front or back garden and the door opens straight on to the street, she has no car and lives a long bus ride from the nearest dump).

Jane Salisbury ● 7729d

Foxes carry diseases and can be dangerous - if I had children playing in my garden, I would not want them putting their feet into foxes 'sh..' with the possibility of a mange ridden animal attacking them.  This is a serious issue which needs to be addressed in the right and proper fashion.

Dee Cook ● 7729d

Jane:  There is a refuse contract.  In this contract are rules and regulations.  This contract is expensive - see press release below - Council Tax Payers are paying for this and we expect an 'excellent' service, not a 'poor' one.Ealing Council is pleased to announce that the procurement process for its multi-million pound Clean and Green contract has been successful, and the contract has been awarded to ECT Recycling. A rigorous scoring process identified ECT as the clear winner on both quality and price.  Five companies submitted tenders for the contract and all were assessed against a range of criteria including resources, technical method statements and management systems.The process was presented to and approved by a Scrutiny panel made up of  representatives of all three political parties in Ealing.  ECT will take over the council's integrated waste and recycling services on March 1st 2005 for a minimum of seven years, working in a partnering approach with the council to build upon and improve current levels of service.  Improving recycling rates will be key to the contract as Ealing must meet strict government targets in 2005/06.A new kitchen waste collection service will also be introduced in 2005 as part of the new contract.Councillor John Delaney, Cabinet Member for Streets and Environment said:"Refuse collection and recycling are issues that affect every one of our residents and therefore the Clean and Green contract is one of the council's largest and most important contracts.  The council has been committed to developing and carrying out the most rigorous and robust tendering process possible to ensure the best outcome for our residents."I am confident that ECT will prove to be an excellent partner in developing and improving our waste and recycling service."EndsNotes to editorsMulti-million !!!! You will note the words - Government Targets.  You need to have a look at them. Times are about to change.  Residents have a duty to ensure their rubbish is put out for collection in the right and proper way.  Spilt waste in people's front gardens is their responsibility in law and not the Council's, unless it is an environmental health matter under which the Council has powers to clean up the mess and charge residents.Unfortunately, sometmes prosecution is the only way forward to stop unsocial behaviour.

Dee Cook ● 7729d

Dareen: I am sorry, but you are misinformed.  Wheelie bins do increase waste. You must be the exception. If you have so little non-recyclable waste, why don't you use your wheelie bin for storing your recyclable material?  The crew can than push it to the collection vehicle instead of carrying your heavy green box?Black bags should not be put out on the pavement/roadway for collection.  We pay for a collection from our frontage - that's what's in the contract.  Bags/bins put out on the pavement and in the roadway are contravening the Highways Act under which you can be prosecuted.  They are a danger for the blind and disabled.The refuse crews should 'pull out' the bags just prior to collection, so they are on the public highway for as little a time as possible.  That's what's in the contract.

Dee Cook ● 7729d

Not a problem - it's easily done! Even though I love seeing the foxes around here in the middle of the night, I am a wheelie bin convert. I'm positively selfish about my rubbish and have no desire to share it...

Piero Vitelli ● 7729d

That will teach me to read a posting to quickly, apologies Piero.

Paul Allen ● 7729d

Huh Paul? I think Peiro was agreeing with you?  Wasn't he?  That's how I read his message.

Jane Salisbury ● 7730d

"Whilst torn bin liners and loose rubbish lying around in piles may constitute art in the Tate Modern, I find it much the greater of the two evils when compared to wheelie bins, no matter how questionable their aesthetics"I cannot really believe you made that statement! You would rather kick rubbish about for days until someone decides to clear it up?On a good day you can get at lest two bags full from the rubbish strewn over the street by fox’s.What’s really so wrong with a wheelie bin? It stands there about waste high, colour green or any camouflage you like to paint it, it can be internally separated for different kinds of waste, its more hygienic for the operatives to handle, doesn’t get split open and the contents strewn all over the place.If it’s used similar to the Australian system can be automatically loaded into separate compartments in the refuse truck making the job cleaner and more efficient for all concerned.I think the site of the LBH & LBE on a collection day, can look worse than a third world country.        

Paul Allen ● 7730d

Whilst torn bin liners and loose rubbish lying around in piles may constitute art in the Tate Modern, I find it much the greater of the two evils when compared to wheelie bins, no matter how questionable their aesthetics. Yes of course there are byelaws - but since when was a byelaw (other than parking restriction) enforced? I can't really believe that we suddenly start producing more waste simply because we use a different method of temporarily storing it. I'm not saying that the research isn't true - I haven't seen it - but I am saying that it's a sad indictment on us all if it is!

Piero Vitelli ● 7730d

Obviously some people have strong feelings against wheelie bins, but it's important to remember that these are not shared by all residents.We also need refuse collectors who will pick up spilt waste and collect from people's front gardens, which often doesn't happen now.  Bags are left in the street because that's the only way to guarantee collection.  And my daughter has no where to leave the bag but on the street.It seems more than unreasonable to prosecute, or even threaten prosecution of, people who have been left with little choice but to break the law.

Jane Salisbury ● 7731d

Obviously some people have strong feelings against wheelie bins, but it's important to remember that these are not shared by all residents.We also need refuse collectors who will pick up spilt waste and collect from people's front gardens, which often doesn't happen now.  Bags are left in the street because that's the only way to guarantee collection.  And my daughter has no where to leave the bag but on the street.It seems more than unreasonable to prosecute, or even threaten prosecution of, people who have been left with little choice but to break the law.

Jane Salisbury ● 7731d

DorisIt all depends which Council you pay your Council Tax too.We now recycle so much in LBH our Green Boxes are not big enough, we now need a dustbin size recycle box. There are also Wheelie bins that are divided into sections for normal rubbish and recycled rubbish.LBH ask us to put our plastic sacks on a roadside area for collection, and as I live in an area populated with a lot of Foxes 50% of bags are torn open before the collection service arrives, so now we have been asked to put them out at 06:30 am on the morning of the collection.So a wheelie bin used sensibly would be far better than have a to walk pass a mini rubbish tip on collection day, which I might add does not get cleared up the collection service.   

Paul Allen ● 7731d

Wheely bins are ugly and expensive.  We do not want these littering our front gardens.  Spillage from the collection of black bags should be cleaned up by the refuse collectors, OR, BETTER STILL, residents should be informed to put out their refuse (ON THEIR FRONTAGES, NOT ON THE PAVEMENT, WHICH IS AN OFFENCE UNDER THE HIGHWAYS ACT - AND FOR WHICH YOU CAN BE PROSECUTED) in proper study black bags, tied properly in order to avoid spillage.  It has been proven that wheely bins INCREASE the amount of refuse we put out.  WE NEED TO RECYCLE/REUSE AND NOT PRODUCE MORE WASTE. NO WE DO NOT NEED WHEELIE BINS, BUT RESPOSIBLE RESIDENTS WHO RECYCLE/REUSE AS MUCH OF THEIR WASTE AS POSSIBLE.

Dee Cook ● 7731d

The council is singularly unhelpful over this issue. They say they try to get leaseholders to provide suitable space in new developments, but completely wash their hands of the issue when it comes to existing properties. I have one of just two leasehold flats here, with an enigmatic never-to-be-seen freeholder. There is a small cupboard, but who wants rotting waste stinking out the hallway for a week?

Keith Clarke ● 7732d

My daughter lives in a privately rented 4 bedroomed flat, shared with 3 other adults.  There is also a flat the same size upstairs.  None of these people have any outside space so are living with their rubbish all week.  The only door to the outside opens straight onto the street.  I have no idea what the answer is to it really.

Jane Salisbury ● 7732d

KeithI don’t know if your flats are privately owned or Local Authority.If they are local authority, then storing more than one plastic bag of rubbish in you your living area is unacceptable. If you are not supplied with a small cupboard beside you front door or a common area on the ground floor where you can store any waste, then I think its about time you or someone else should get all the residents together and start lobbying you local Councillor.If you are in private rented property I would check what the citizens advice bureau has to say on the subject and act accordingly, but make sure all the residents are willing to make any type of protest to the landlord, as one person on there own is easily put off. 

Paul Allen ● 7732d

Spare a thought for your neighbours in lovely Acton. On The Vale, where there are a lot of flats over shops, there is a collection of commercial waste several times a day. However, residents are not allowed to join in on this, and have one collection a week. Since these flats do not have any outside areas, everyone is expected to keep their waste in their living space for up to a week, which is hardly brilliant for health and safety. This would so easily be improved by a few wheelie bins - there are plenty of places to site them - but the council has set its heart against them and is apparently incapable of thinking out of the box.However, the council has been astute enough to dream up a cunning money-raising scheme. One day recently it failed to make a collection of any kind. The following day it took the waste, opened it to search for addresses, then sent £50 fines for fly tipping. Clever, eh?

Keith Clarke ● 7732d

Paul: a clever idea.....trompte d'oeil I believe its called.If you painted it to look like a Post Office pillar box..that would cause a smile too...Any other clever ideas?

Jim Lawes ● 7732d

You could paint it to look like to policeman to deter burglars.

Jane Salisbury ● 7732d

You could paint it to look like to policeman to deter burglars.

Jane Salisbury ● 7732d

Wheely Bins are definitely the way to go, in fact I think we should have a competition on the best way to hide or disguise them.I’m going to camouflage mine by painting the same as the front hedge, so it can stand along side it without it being seen.Any other Idea’s   

Paul Allen ● 7732d

I think I will have to go down the bin route.My evening walks with Milo sometimes get very lively, I think the foxes come out specially to taunt him.  They are really cheeky and not at all shy.The noise they make in the night can be horrible though, really blood curdling, and they can keep it up for such a long time.

Jane Salisbury ● 7733d

I live in North Isleworth and we come under the London Borough of Hounslow.  No problems in our street really.We put our waste into black plastic bags..that we buy ourselves..and then place the bag into a circular black heavy duty plastic dustbin.  It looks neat ..standing in the side alley.Then the night before.. we move the plastic dustbin 10 yards to the pavements edge..on our driveway still..and when the bin men call at 7am..I can carry on sleeping..knowing that my neighbour will reposition the bins at 9am when they leave for work.Wheely bins look horrid!These heavy duty plastic bins were suppied by the Council many moons ago..and some poeple don't seem to have them. We have a group of foxes who wandered around..switching on our security lights ..but thats all.PS: there is a Plastic Dustbin distributor on the small industrial estate..behind the car wash place in Windmill Road, brentford..in case you were thinking of kitting yourself out!!

Jim Lawes ● 7733d

For people who store their rubbish in black bags and keep them in the house until collection day, fair enough. For those who keep their rubbish outside, a wheelie bin takes up less space than a black bag - they sell them at garden centres for less than a couple of pints. There is no plastic bag, black and large or otherwise that can withstand the attentions of a fox. I am not sure as to why the binmen will only collect from the street - time? labour? effort? bye-law? I have never come across another borough of London that has this practise. But then again, if they did change it to collecting from premises, how many people would buy a bin to keep their rubbish in?

Piero Vitelli ● 7735d

I agree with Jane - If I don't put the bin bags on the pavement they are just ignored by the bin men. They are not collected even if I put them just within my front garden in clear view of the street. However, wheelie bins will not be the answer fo me.... my front garden isn't big enough to fit one in!

Lawrence Tan ● 7736d

I'm sorry to start this up again but I'd like to know in which universe it is possible to get your black rubbish bag collected if it isn't actually on the pavement, because it certainly isn't the one I live in.  Those left on the property(just inside the gate) are often ignored.  So it seems we have a choice, risk prosecution or take chance on your rubbish being collected or not.  I don't work so am in the lucky position of being able to put my bags out mid morning for the collection and chase the bin men up the road if they ignore them, (I've had to do this in my pyjamas!)but most of my neighbours aren't so fortunate.Also I think some areas suffer far more than others with foxes.  The number of them, and the amount of mess they make around here, has to be seen to be believed. Bins of some sort have to be a better option than chicken carcasses and other sundry yukkiness strewn up and down the street.  (At the front of properties or in back gardens).

Jane Salisbury ● 7736d