Forum Topic

3G issues in South Ealing

Anyone having very poor ( almost non existent ) 3G signal the last few weeks in the area. I'm in South Ealing and with Virgin Mobile and for around a fortnight now , almost nothing despite the company themselves saying no issues ? Fortunately wifi gets me through but with a partner working from home who needs his phone, it's a real frustration !!

Alan Baverstock ● 4237d24 Comments

Ah, the Victorian era when X-Rays were a sideshow and to hell with the dosage.I to, erred on the side of caution Neil and feel comfortable that the charity with whom I worked to position mobile base stations within their properties have nothing to worry about. I think our first ICNIRP test readings were at 1/132000th of the safe levels. The highest  had in my six years there was 1/16000th of the safe level. Do also remember that the safe levels were set at the lowest possible level in the first place.I do agree about microwaves. Incidentally never, ever, microwave in a plastic container (always use glass) as the fact that the plasticisers can leach is well known, the cumulative effects of such chemicals is not.

Nigel Brooks ● 4234d

There is a saying that the more you know the less you know. I do not mean to be hard on you regarding mobile technoloy, I use it myself. However, there is a growing risk as more ambient EM energy enters out day-to-day lives and there are some famous examples of what can go wrong. Telecom Tower is largely empty because of the microwave scatter from the antennas at the top of it that was giving office workers located in it cataracts over the course of many (20 plus years). Another extreme example is what happens if you microwave something in a microwave oven. Then there is what happens if you position a tray of living seedlings next to a WiFi base station.There are other aspects that are only just starting to be addressed, concerns emerging from microwave-enabled chemistry where it is being shown that certain frequencies of radiation  will disrupt certain types of chemical bond.We just do not know what the bulk presence of certain frequencies and their harmonics will have on our living world, and hence the need for further research in this particular area.I like to err on the side of caution and look to radioactive remedies of the Victorian era as a touchstone!

Neil F. Weber ● 4234d

The 4.0mm tree and branch and spur stuff was first formalised in 16 I think (though I may be wrong)

Neil F. Weber ● 4234d

The wiring configurations which you describe have always been legal.What matters is whether they are safe configurations.There are many more perfectly safe designs possible than the two or three "standard" circuits known to your average sparky (and thus routinely installed in domestic premises).

Tony Colliver ● 4234d

Neil, you confuse 3G and LTE with Airwave.High frequency is nothing without power and 3G and LTE are intrinsically low power devices (typically c.20 watts). Crystal Palace transmitter is, by comparison c.1,000,000 watts.You are more at risk (please look it up) from a poorly shielded motor on an old vacuum cleaner.I would have nothing to do with TETRA Airwave nor would my clients. It is used for emergency services communications and it derived from research into a battlefield electronic weapon. While the risks from a TETRA base station are still incredibly low I was never happy even being asked to consider finding a site for it, nor did I ever do so.

Nigel Brooks ● 4234d

N.B. In my opinion there is no environmentally friendly place to site a base station, especially the 3G and LTE base stations which pump out a lot of very high frequency energy. They are a necessary evil to implement the mobile system.

Neil F. Weber ● 4234d

All the various sources of EM energy contribute to the electrosmog - power cables, radio base station, even the sun! The cumulative effect of all this is what is most worrying. WiFi base stations are the most worrying c.f. seedlings.It is a given that exposure to excessive EM radiation is unhealthy, I am not trying to get into the debate of whether it is or not, I am ASSUMING it is based on the research conducted, I keen to see that levels do not rise.I would like to see infrastructure in this country anticipate possible health risks rather than deny that there are any problems. People are more important than profit.It would be interesting to see if you would like to sleep a few netres away from a 200kV cable for a few years.

Neil F. Weber ● 4234d

"I am as likely to believe someone who works in the mobile industry on the topic of electrosmog as I am someone who works in the tobacco industry and who says that tobacco is not harmful if used in moderation."I actually worked in finding environmentally neutral locations for new base stations.I suggest you curb your cynicism chap by actually reading the Stewart report and the succeeding documents that are unequivocal in their position that there is no risk to public health from base stations but that a precautionary approach should, at all times, be adopted.All base stations in the UK are routinely monitored against the standards set by the International Committee for Non-ionising Radiation Protection (ICNIRP) ICNIRP is an independent non profit scientific organization chartered in Germany. To preserve its independence from vested interests ICNIRP applies fundamental principles as provided by its Charter and statutes: it does not receive financial support from commercial entities.The results from UK se stations show that not a single base station approached to minimum safety threshold with most thousands if not tens of thousands of times below the designated 'safe' levels.Else, we could adopt the elctrosmog loony approach akin to that proposed by the 'Salzburg Milliwatt' of 1 mW/m² (as compared to 4.5 W/m² or 10 W/m², depending on the radio frequency of mobile telecommunications, as defined by ICNIRP).  This was devised by someone, IIRC a Town Clerk, who also had no knowledge of how radio works and would have resulted in every mobile base station and therefore mobile phone becoming inoperable as that level of signal would not actually leave the base station in the first place. Another example of a little knowledge getting in the way of facts.Austria simply imposed the WHO/ICNIRP limits for the protection of the general public from radiofrequency EMF without any deviation from the recommendations by the WHO, ICNIRP and EU Council.Incidentally the USA standards (adopted by the EPA) are the ICNIRP standards - identical to the UK - as I said - a little knowledge

Nigel Brooks ● 4234d

I did not say that they are making a wholesale change from ring mains, the standards now include the capability to have a tree and branch or spur structure for 13 amp sockets with a 30 amp fuse using 4.0mm cable, as opposed to a ring based on 2.5mm cable and a 30amp fuse. Likewise, it is now acceptable to "split" a 30amp ring using 2.5mm cable so long as a 20amp fuse is used instead of a 30amp fuse. However, this has been seen as a transition step towards European Norms (EN) for the UK for electrical wiring that are based on radial power distribution systems as a less-radiating alternative to ring main configurations.I am as likely to believe someone who works in the mobile industry on the topic of electrosmog as I am someone who works in the tobacco industry and who says that tobacco is not harmful if used in moderation.Other countries have much more stringent control of EM pollution (even the U.S.A.) compared with the U.K.I would suggest some more background reading on more recent research than that which was once bandied around by the "mobile industry" as you term it, in years past to justify its claims.

Neil F. Weber ● 4234d

Having worked in the mobile phone industry for a number of years please use the 'childhood leukaemia' scare story with caution.Yes, cases of childhood leukaemia doubled in proximity to power lines.IIRC they 'doubled' from two to four when compared to other proximal locations to the power lines so there was no statistically sound evidence that the power lines caused the issue.You are also factually incorrect about the changes to UK wiring standards. Both the 17th edition and the forthcoming 18th edition of the IEE regulation make no mention of a wholesale change from the established practice of ring mains.God forbid that we should ever follow all of the 'electrosmog' advice from the Karolinska Institute (qv) which s resulted in people, supposedly sensitive, wearing wire mesh Faraday cage suits around their own homes and painthing all of their walls with 'anti-radiation' paint.

Nigel Brooks ● 4234d

The answer is "Yes". The lawsuits around high-voltage pylons and childhood leukemia are an example. You are dealing with two types of field: electric, and magnetic radiating from such cables. The ones that are buried are screened for electric fields, but not magnetic fields. The ones on pylons are screened for neither. However, the screening results in a "back emf" in the screening which wastes electrical energy and so the latest generation of gas-insulated cables do away with even that screening meaning that you get very large electric fields around them. In countries such as Italy it is a legal requirement to SHIELD the high-voltage cables to restrict the magnetic field as well as SCREENING to restrict the electric field. Screening is relatively cheap, magnetic shielding is very very expensive and is unlikely to be seen in this country until the European Union produces some EU-wide laws in this area. Germany is very hot on "electrosmog" and new houses that are built have to be screened from EM pollution like the microwaves from WiFi base stations. We are very behind in this area in this country and our much-loved 30amp ring mains for 13amp plugs are illegal in European countries as the "ring" configuration of  working 30amp ring main with electrical devices on it acts as an antenna radiating EM energy at 50 cycles per second (50Hz). The amount of energy that a seemingly quiescent ring main can radiate is several times that of a WiFi base station and the UK wiring standards for houses and commercial premises has been modified in recent years to allow a tree-and-branch configuration to feed 13amp sockets rather than a ring. The disadvantages of this approach is that you need heavier, and hence costlier, cable, the advantage is that you are not slowly being irradiated and cooked (slight exageration) as you watch TV in your home.I would suggest searching for "electrosmog" on the Internet for an insight into the scale of the problem.

Neil F. Weber ● 4234d

Does the eleltric field around these large cables cause any harm to the public? Can it be dangerous to one's health? Are they so powerful as to be alarming?

Gerry Tan ● 4235d

The magnetic field extends much further than that. I suspect that what you are reading is the residual electric field that is permeating the electrical screening of what are in respect of today's technology quite old cables. The magnetic field will extend tens of metres depending on the voltage and power being carried.Interestingly, the latest in high power high voltage cabling, gas insulated cabling, does away with the electrical screen, so unless the whole cable is shielded on the outside you get a much larger electrical field apparent.

Neil F. Weber ● 4235d

Windemere Road is one that carries very high voltage cables that have readings that can be picked up at pavement level.

Anthony Waller ● 4236d

The problem may be unsolvable in some parts of South Ealing. There are some very high voltage electricity grid cables running though parts of South Ealing that generate enormous magnetic fields around them even when they are underground.

Neil F. Weber ● 4236d

The o2 mast outside Wickes is in the process of being integrated into o2 and Vodafone's shared network called "Cornerstone". When the Vodafone services are turned on for that mast, other local Vodafone masts will be turned off.

Chris Martin ● 4236d

My mistake (note to self: check both mast databases).The new mast and cabinets outside Wickes are owned by O2 not EE.

Nigel Brooks ● 4236d

haven't had any issues with 3G or 4G on EE in South Ealing for a year or two... whereabouts in South Ealing are you Alan?

Chris Martin ● 4236d

No issues on 3

Andy Williams ● 4237d

There was a two-day outage on Virgin Mobile at the end of August; since then my reception has been normal.

Susan Kelly ● 4237d

Vodafone 3G in parts of South Ealing and Brentford is awful.It's actually better in very rural areas than in this urban area.I've managed to get a refund from Vodafone for 3 years of a poor diminished signal.

Anthony Waller ● 4237d

What a surprise it's an EE/Orange site.

Nigel Brooks ● 4237d

Maybe it's coincidence but I noticed issues since the new mast went up outside WickesDon't know which provider owns this but our mobile receptions been cap since

Colin Goodman ● 4237d

EE/Orange/Virgin have had horrendous signal issues locally for weeks.I have had enough and have moved all the family phones to giffgaff (way cheaper as well).If you have an unlocked phone, give it a try, I have a couple of spare SIMs.

Nigel Brooks ● 4237d