Forum Topic

e-petition to Ealing Council to take tougher action against public drinking and associated litter

Please could you sign and circulate to your family and friends this e-petition to Ealing Council to take tougher action against public drinking and associated littering and anti social behaviour in Greenford and Perivale.  To sign the petition please follow this link: http://ealing.cmis.uk.com/ealing/ePetitions/tabid/96/ID/9/Consumption-of-alcohol-in-public-and-associated-littering-in-Greenford-and-Perivale.aspx The petition is open to be signed until 22nd September and states as follows: 'We the undersigned ask Ealing Council to actively campaign against public consumption of alcohol in Greenford and Perivale, to recognise the chronic increase in litter that public drinking is creating in the area from discarded beer cans, bottles, cigarette packets, plastic bags used to carry the drinking vessels and associated waste and the eyesore, public health hazard, including increased incidence of rats, and danger to wildlife that this litter creates in our streets, car parks, parks other public open spaces and private gardens. We ask the Council to recognise the unacceptable impact public drinking and associated antisocial behaviour from drunkenness is having on the lives of residents, including urinating and littering on private property and unwanted sexual advances to vulnerable residents. We ask the Council to act on these issues by: - launching a campaign with Council officers, Councillors and residents meeting public drinkers together with police officers, to increase the number and size of no street drinking signage;- creating an office in the Council specifically dedicated to cracking down on public drinking and enforcing the Controlled Drinking Zone; - increasing the numbers of litter bins in litter hotspots- sending letters to all households in the area informing residents that the Council is cracking down on public drinking;- working with the local police to ensure more is done to enforce the Controlled Drinking Zone and to reduce public drinking.'

Graham Weeks ● 4180d22 Comments

Thanks Gerry

Alex Nieora ● 4156d

As I detest anti-social behaviour associated with pubic drinking and drunkeness, I'll probably sign - although I usually distance myself from open petitions like this one.

Gerry Tan ● 4159d

Petition open until 22nd of September - if you haven't already signed.

Alex Nieora ● 4159d

This is off topic - this thread isn't about raising the price of alcohol - its about Ealing Council taking stronger action against public drinkers and people who litter (often one in the same) which end up making our neighbourhood look like a dump, increase public health hazards from vermin and cause a danger to other wildlife (birds who ingest bits of plastic or get strangled by beer can hoops for example).

Alex Nieora ● 4162d

Hear, hear!  (Hic!)No - seriously - I complete agree with Keith.I am sick to death of those people that would restrict my freedoms and incur extra costs (via my taxes) in order to prevent the activities of somebody else that they find irritating.I had hoped that we had seen the back of the Mary Whitehouse tendency, but it would seem it is alive and well and living in Ealing.

Tony Colliver ● 4163d

I am very familiar with data protection law. Ms McNeill's decision to destroy email/ address contacts, however after being asked politely by Michael Mina (who probably was not aware of her injured foot or delayed train) to forward them (for exactly the same purpose for which she had obtained the contacts), when she herself admits that 'it wasn't that long a list, reflecting the apathy I had encountered during [her] campaign' seems self evidently to be wilfully counter-productive to me continuing the campaign. I imagine that anyone who is, like Ms McNeill says, arsed to read this, would conclude that Ms McNeill was being as unhelpful as possible. Further while Ms McNeill is quite right to say she is entitled to post 'Visitors to this house who mention HS2 will be killed and eaten, there is room in our freezer for you...' on her doorbell should she so wish - that people may nonetheless reasonably conclude that she has issues and may have become hysterical over HS2. Conversely, Mr Mina, despite his idiosyncrasies, I have always found to be very level-headed proactive, friendly and co-operative. Perhaps Ms McNeill might reflect on this and my community work (not limited to HS2) and determine that it would be better to swallow her pride and have me as an ally in the area (but I doubt it).

Alex Nieora ● 4163d

Perhaps it takes a hysteric to know a hysteric. Mr Nieora's need for "help" was restricted to contact data that had already been destroyed/deleted. There is a possibility that his confusion and unfortunate urge to vent in this manner stems from the fact that his source is as confused as he is. Michael Mina has the passwords for the Ealing Against HS2 Wordpress blog site and Twitter accounts (or did). He even set up an email address to manage them from. The last time I spoke to Mr Mina was at the end of May 2012, in Bennetts Avenue. I had just walked three miles on an injured foot (train from West Ealing cancelled and no way to top up my Oystercard) when he approached me to ask (again) about the email/address list I had used during my efforts. He really picks his moments. I had realised that, as a "data controller", I had no right to retain what was effectively a burglar's handbook to the area (there were phone numbers too) so I destroyed them. I had already explained this to Mr Mina, a neighbour, more than once. It wasn't that long a list, reflecting the apathy I had encountered during the campaign. Following his conversation with me Michael Mina's next act was to  reply to an email from Mr Nieora, telling him that I had refused to hand over the data (I'm not sure what it is I'm supposed to have wanted it for if I was no longer engaged in the campaign!) and, unwittingly, to everyone on the mailing list (it wasn't a blind copy so I could see the same people were involved as I recognised some of the names). One of them forwarded it to me as he felt I had a right to see what was being said about me behind my back. I took the opportunity to explain to everyone on the list the conversation as I remembered it and my reasons for not handing over private information. At this point Mr Nieora replied to me apologising and saying that he was not familiar with data protection law.  Mr Nieora appeared to entertain some fantasy that I had control of an army of activists. I realised this when he left a bizarre comment to that effect on the Stop HS2 Facebook page in response to a link I posted there. At that point I began to wonder if he had issues of some kind and blocked him. I leave it to anyone who can still be arsed to read all this to decide if my choice was a wise one.

Albertina McNeill ● 4163d

With regard to HS2 Ms McNeil refused to have anything to do with the HS2 campaign in Ealing from January 2012 an outright lack of co-operation including a refusal to share information including website details and campaign activist names, forcing North Ealing Against HS2 to work from scratch. Ms McNeil's negative attitude and hysterical attitude worked entirely to her detriment. Its a shame that Ms McNeil got entirely no where, whereas North Ealing Against HS2 achieved national and London wide publicity for the campaign on the TV and in national newspapers, attended high level conferences, spoke in person with the Mayor of London and the CEO of HS2 Ltd and ultimately achieved a bore tunnel for Ealing, burying HS2 entirely beneath the ground.

Alex Nieora ● 4163d

I can't agree with that. I am never drunk in public nor causing a nuisance and I enjoy a drink as much as the next person and don't see the why I should have to pay more for something I enjoy responsibly. Far better those who cause problems with bad behaviour are held to account. Whatever happened to people being charged and fined for being drunk and disorderly or for being  drunk in a public place. Years ago drunks were put into a cell and were up before the beak and fined or worse the next morning.

Keith Iddon ● 4164d

It is a shame that the Government did not bring in the minimum price for alcohol that so many people wanted.  I suppose they get so much lobbying from the alcohol companies and such a lot of revenue from the tax. There was something about graphic signs in a previous post.  I agree that good graphics should be used in signs.

Philippa Bond ● 4164d

And where did I refer to the specific nationality of those responsible for the problems raised by this petition? That seems unfair given that the area is now home to people from many countries.

Albertina McNeill ● 4165d

Hissy fits? Mmmm... I am aware that Mr Nieora is the petitioner, I can read. [With regard to HS2, Mr Neiora was put on the emailing list by his neighbour at the time but did not take part in the campaign to my knowledge. He did not attend any of the demos I organised throughout 2011 and is not in any of the photos I took for the Greenford and Northolt Gazette, otherwise I would have known that I had met him. I asked repeatedly for people to help me form a committee and actually brought the campaign to an end because only one person was willing to take part and because I could no longer cope with the stress. During 2011 I had set up a webpage and Twitter account, drafted and distributed leaflets, written letters, given radio interviews, organised photo shoots and demos, got the story into the local paper, helped arrange a public meeting and walked miles. By that stage the  term "HS2" was enough to make me foam at the mouth. I handed over control of the online campaign to Michael Mina in case anyone wanted to take it up again. I have been told that when asked why he did not take part in the 2011 campaign Mr Nieora said that he had been busy. What I put next to our doorbell - in this case "Visitors to this house who mention HS2 will be killed and eaten, there is room in our freezer for you..." - is my business.] I think most pub landlords in our area would be quite offended that their premises are regarded as lairs for hardened drinkers. I think most councillors would like to see some proof of what their colleagues are, allegedly, up to.

Albertina McNeill ● 4165d

The petition is to Ealing Council, who have no jurisdiction over the border in Hounslow.

Alex Nieora ● 4165d

The problem is significantly more acute in Perivale and Greenford.

Alex Nieora ● 4165d

Albertina - I am the petitioner and you lost all right to comment on my endeavours in Perivale/ Greenford when after starting the HS2 campaign you lost interest HS2 and refused to help me or the new group I formed - or have any contact with us. Don't start what you can't finish and don't throw hissy fits/ tantrums or stick unpleasant notes on your doorbell when you can't deal with what you have started. Regarding your comments on my petition, its been drafted in broad terms: 'the Council to actively campaign against...' (this could include an 'advertising' campaign as you suggest) with some specific suggestions to the Council on how to deal with the problem in order for the issue to generate debate in the Council and be made a priority. I do not have THE answer to the problem but I am trying. On your specific points: the police have limited powers and only central government legislation can amend these; I (and others) have asked for the letters and signage to be translated into Polish but Ealing Council refused this. Re HMOs - of course this is part of the problem. How do you solve it when Councillors themselves own HMOs - some of them unregistered and illegal. 'We'd be better off funding spaces where hardened drinkers are able to indulge themselves...' - this used to be known as pubs and social clubs... Perivale barely has any - in fact the fewest in the Borough... Perish the thought that I may have considered all the points you raised when I drafted the petition.

Alex Nieora ● 4165d

Where did I say that not being able to speak our language is an excuse to behave in an unacceptable manner? There are plenty of people here who do not speak English well but have perfect manners.

Albertina McNeill ● 4175d

Give legal powers to enforcement officers (police and local authority personnel) to prosecute, fine on the spot or force offenders to tidy and clean up (give them gloves).We simply need more enforcement. o K that costs money. Try it out just for two years.

George Knox ● 4175d

Most of these unsavoury habits are no more tolerated or legal in other countries than they are supposed to be here.Not speaking the language is no excuse. It is a easy cop out on an over tolerent society.Unfortunately it is a mark on the calibre of too many people here who have no respect for the way of life and society here and the difficulty we have created ourselves by not leaving means to enforce means to curb such problems.We have to have a period of zero, almost draconian tolerence to bring this under control and it needs to apply evenly to all who offend.Do things properly and abide by the law and social ettiquette and no-one has anything to fear.These are small things that make our society better to live in for all, but these small things are very important.

Anthony Waller ● 4176d

I would sign a petition asking the council to address the issues it raises but I think this one is unrealistic. Does the petitioner mean, by "creating an office", a booze tzar or a room where the activity is co-ordinated? How much will this cost? Send letters to every household, seriously? An expensive exercise. It wouldn't be worth it given that a sizeable proportion of those responsible for this sort of behaviour do not speak fluent English, let alone read it. What's wrong with an image based advertising campaign? If "no drinking" signage isn't working now what's the point of paying for more? We'd be better off funding spaces where hardened drinkers are able to indulge themselves - this has worked elsewhere and is probably more cost effective. Preventing huge discounts on beer would also help. I'd prefer to see the police dealing with crime than this kind of thing. Surely this is a task for those dealing with addictions? I appreciate they might need the police to support them on occasion but this work requires a different approach. A solution might require council tax payers to fund rehabilitation for those who accept it. Are they willing to pay for it? As for all those extra bins - they don't empty themselves. I believe that the buy to let phenomenon had has an unforeseen consequence. High rents mean that many of these properties become HMOs. When you have to rent you usually have to smoke outside so why do that on the doorstep when you can go to a park and have a drink too? We have to face the fact that habitual heavy drinking has arrived with some migrants and this, combined with cheap alcohol and a tendency to socialise outside out of necessity, has begun to affect all of us. As for the practice of urinating in public, it isn't always associated with public drinking. It is a bad habit, no doubt tolerated elsewhere just as spitting is, and could probably be stopped by those confident enough to challenge offenders when they spot them. What about providing a few more public toilets, the ones that were probably closed because of cutbacks years ago? Probably too expensive...

Albertina McNeill ● 4176d

And over the border in Brentford where dumping human faeces, used pampers and all manner of rubbish has taken root.Please extend it to both Boroughs

Anthony Waller ● 4179d

I'm in support of better enforcement of Controlled Drinking Zones to avoid public drinking and associated anti-social behaviour in the borough. Before the refurbishment of Walpole Park, there was a group there who used to drink publicly in the park - lets hope that's stopped now that we have a refurbished and pleasant park again. All for your petition Graham.

Gerry Tan ● 4179d

This petition should cover the whole of the Borough.

Joanna Dabrowska ● 4180d