Forum Topic

Ifti...percentages and numbers

It turns out that old Ifti is a bit of a mathematician... great at quoting numbers when it comes to berating our schools etc. Well I got some numbers for you matey!Currently the prison population is around 27% muslim.  Muslims currently make up just under 5% of the population.... I wonder if old Ifti has any thoughts on this??? http://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2014/03/29/uk-muslim-prison-population-doubles-in-a-decade-to-27-muslim-mp-blames-it-on-islamophobia/

Andy Wright ● 4292d31 Comments

Who is imprisoned except for law breaking except those on remand who are  still suspected of it?Not all directly for the motivations suggested and I already stated I have not access to any figures.

Graham Weeks ● 4284d

>100% are imprisoned for law breaking. I think that's a bit over optimistic.>As to their motivations, who could statistically analyse?Do you think they are all there for the motivation you suggested? Or even 1% of them?

Paul James ● 4284d

100% are imprisoned for law breaking. As to their motivations, who could statistically analyse?

Graham Weeks ● 4285d

>Radical Islam tells its young followers to despise our country, culture and Christianity. One result of this is law breaking.Can you put a number to what percentage of Muslims put in prison ended up there because of this reason?

Paul James ● 4285d

Some time ago I read the autobiography of a man born to an upright Muslim family in East London who became radicalised when a student (Ed Hussein). He left his well know Islamist sect to present a peaceful face of Islam, the Quilliam Foundation.  IIRC the reason he became disillusioned with his former way was that he found those people to be lawless. They may shout about shari'a and a caliphate but the did not want to obey what is at present the law of this land. He found they were not pious Muslims. I think you will find Hindus and Sikhs are  not found imprisoned at a level way above their percentages in the general population. Muslims are, but I think you will find it is a generational thing. Older Muslims by and large respect this country. Many younger ones do not. Radical Islam tells its young followers to despise our country, culture and Christianity. One result of this is law breaking. BTW the observation of higher percentages of Muslims imprisoned is not a phenomenon unique to UK.

Graham Weeks ● 4285d

So graham, why do you think muslims are over represented in the prison population compared to the general population?

Paul James ● 4285d

Treating two different things in the same breath does not make them the same. There are religions linked to race/ethnicity like Hinduism and Judaism ( though I am aware of some ethnic diversity among Jews). However Islam and Christianity are not racial. They cross ethnic divides and to some extent cultures though there is less diversity in Islam with the primacy given to Arabic in its Scriptures and prayers.There are divisions in the human race. If there were not there would be no racism which is universally endemic to a greater or lesser extent.

Graham Weeks ● 4286d

It's not a reasonable inference.Many documents defining racism, including the European convention of human rights, treat religious prejudice in the same breath as racism as the two are often conflated (i.e. muslim = brown people).All races? I thought we were the human race? Are there separate races? I put the cosmetic differences in people down to family likeness myself.

Paul James ● 4286d

It is a reasonable inference based on religion not race. Muslims are not a race. They come from all races.

Graham Weeks ● 4287d

Of course there are probably many different and subtle reasons why these percentages show up as they do. To assert that it's simply because Muslims are more criminally minded than average as the OP appears to be implying is out and out racism of the worst kind.

Paul James ● 4287d

No, it does not go into that level of detail.it is interesting thought to see the vast imbalance between Muslims and other ethnic minorities imprisoned.

Nigel Brooks ● 4290d

Does it state anywhere how many of the prisoners also changed religion upon committal ? To reap benefits not afforded to let's say Christians for saying sake, not an uncommon practice, or even how many really are converts, as lately when passing the mosque in west ealing I see quite large numbers of lads that I know were not born to Muslim families as my kids went to school with them (22 to 31 age range)

Tracey Mehdizadeh ● 4290d

Sorry, don't know what happened there. Firefox crapped out and then restored by sending the post again. Sorry.

Nigel Brooks ● 4291d

Muslim prisoners do represent a disproportionate percentage of the prison population even among ethnic minorities.From the MofJ statistics*** published in 2012 (the last data available) the 'mix of prisoners is (first figure is total number, second is %age of the prison population, the third is %age of the population as a whole):Christian 43,176 50.2% 61.3%Muslim 11,248 13.1% 4.0%Hindu 456 0.5% 1.5%Sikh 777 0.9% 0.7%Buddhist 1,756 2.0% 0.5%Jewish 252 0.3% 0.5%Other religious group 1,077 1.3% 0.5%No religion 25,269 29.4% 24.1%Not recorded 2,037 2.4% 7.0%Total 86,067 100% 100%*** Source: House of Common Library, document reference SN/SG/4334

Nigel Brooks ● 4291d

Muslim prisoners do represent a disproportionate percentage of the prison population even among ethnic minorities.From the MofJ statistics*** published in 2012 (the last data available) the 'mix of prisoners is (first figure is total number, second is %age of the prison population, the third is %age of the population as a whole):Christian 43,176 50.2% 61.3%Muslim 11,248 13.1% 4.0%Hindu 456 0.5% 1.5%Sikh 777 0.9% 0.7%Buddhist 1,756 2.0% 0.5%Jewish 252 0.3% 0.5%Other religious group 1,077 1.3% 0.5%No religion 25,269 29.4% 24.1%Not recorded 2,037 2.4% 7.0%Total 86,067 100% 100%*** Source: House of Common Library, document reference SN/SG/4334

Nigel Brooks ● 4291d

Not him. The RT devil is the real one.

Graham Weeks ● 4291d

One can only conclude that those imprisoned have no respect for the law, neither that of the land nor that of their religion.

Graham Weeks ● 4291d

yep - me too. Although I`m not becuase I`m discussing it here!! I`ll pull out I think cos I can see this could go wrong..!

Tom Clifford ● 4292d

Ah it IS 27% in London, not nationally. So still more than double the muslim population in the city. Wonder why so high...?

Tom Clifford ● 4292d

Tend to agree with you Tom about statistics - they can be quite misleading. I avoid them like the plague.

Gerry Tan ● 4292d

Yeah I`ve just seen the gauridan article myself. I`m not sure where the 27% stat comes from but you are right that its not representative - double I think they said. The trouble with stats is how you read them, and there can be loads of factors skewing them. Somebody on here a while ago pointed me to article which said that showing stats dosn`t help people make logical conclusions, rather it can have the opposite affect and be read to support an exisitng viewpoints. Lies and statistics. One of those dangerous dinner party topics!!!!

Tom Clifford ● 4292d

Tom, I can't find it quoted elsewhere as high as the figure Andy used. However The Guardian, nit known for being a rabid right-wing 'rag' quotes the MofJ statistics directly for people who 'declare' themselves Muslim as 13.7%. Still way above what it would be if the prison population were representative of wider society.

Nigel Brooks ● 4292d

PS Andy - Can you quote your source? I`d like to check out the stats as you suggest...

Tom Clifford ● 4292d

The curse is still ever present. We`ll only have ourseleves to blame if we keep summoning the TP devil... :O)

Tom Clifford ● 4292d

The reference is to someone very left as well as wrong, who showed no interest in cycling.

Graham Weeks ● 4292d

NB. Come along now. The reference is to someone who was more wrong than right!

George Knox ● 4292d

Good grief. Could you imagine Ifty being anti-pavement cycling? :-)

Nigel Brooks ● 4292d

Has he ever answered other people's posts? He seems to be to be a hit and run poster and as responsible as such a driver.However I am thankful that a certain person who I will not name seems to have departed the forum.

Graham Weeks ● 4292d

Gerry your mind is far from simple.... Google it yourself and find out.No Graham I have not.... purposely put it out in the open to see if shifty has the balls and the integrity to address me openly without his usual copy and paste crap! Ifti I know your going to read this.... don't hide behind an epic copy and paste binge.If you do then everyone will know your full of it and all washed up !

Andy Wright ● 4292d

Have you emailed this to Ifty?

Graham Weeks ● 4292d

Interesting Andy; there are statistics, percentages, proportions, numbers and mathematical data, but there are also lies. Its all very confusing to my simple mind.

Gerry Tan ● 4292d